This thread is to show what units perform the best in Hard Mode. The list shall be created by the members of FES through debate on where each unit goes. Though, make your debate as solid as possible, other people are aloud to counter your points.

The list is below, this is completely based on usefulness. That means new debaters will have a better idea of who to use in their runs.

God Tier

1.Titania
2.Kieran
3.Oscar
4.Jill
5.Reyson

High Tier

6.Boyd
7.Ike
8.Makalov
9.Astrid
10.Mist
11.Tanith
12.Marcia
13.Stefan
14.Soren
15.Nephenee
16.Muarim

Mid Tier

17.Brom
18.Volke
19.Geoffrey
20.Rhys
21.Ilyana
22.Gatrie
23.Ranulf
24.Zihark
25.Tormod
26.Mordecai
27.Calill
28.Haar
29.Tauroneo
30.Devdan
31.Largo

Contributers: Dragon Hellfire, Reikken, Soren, Othin, 159951Mario, YokaiKnight
Banned: --

Top Tier

Ike
Jill
Kieran
Oscar
Reyson
Titania

Additions, subtractions?

Not sure about Reyson, but I'd think Titania above Oscar, we already know she runs the early game, she can actually earn a little EXP midgame while taking advantage of Paladin mobility, and lategame she'll still be good--excellent weapon choices (levels too), great growths on decent bases, and that Mov is still useful. Oscar just isn't as consistently strong as Titania is.

It's alphabetical >_>

Promoting late, bring locked to swords, and not getting the thing that makes him good until the last two chapters? D=

Ike for out of God Tier.

Objection.

Nice observation DV XD

Well, that's only top tier. I totally agree that Ike is not quite in a class of his own, though. His dodge isn't infallible, his defense isn't that great, and as you said he's locked to swords. Ragnell makes him quite beastly later on, but as you said he doesn't have it for a while.

I think he stays in top tier, though, and most likely will stay in the number one spot.

I wanna say something about Jill, but I haven't used her in my last three playthroughs (I got her supports pretty quickly) and won't this time, either, so I'll refrain for now.

Ike lacks a few things all the current combat units in top tier have, such as mobility and 1-2 range. He's easily the first I would remove from top.

And replace him with Boyd. His offense is too amazing to not be top tier.

What puts Boyd a whole tier above Ike? 1-2 range and attack?

Ike promotes roughly the same time as the rest of your units, I don't see how that's a strike. And being locked to swords isn't all bad, because he has Aether.

Soren 4 bottom of the top or top of the high. >_>

It's not a whole tier. It's the gap between tiers between them.

1-2 range, offense, and earlygame durability lead vs lategame durability lead

And I would say that earlygame durability lead > lategame durability lead because your units are less durable in general earlygame.

A few chapters earlier. Others are promoting li3k in 17 part 2 or something like that. And then on a smaller team, he promotes much later than everyone else.

I'd put him at middle of high or lower.

Upper mid of high, non-godly evade and low def kills him from being a real frontline fighter, but he's obviously powerful and a beast with the ranged tomes. Adept only gets better with time, too.

I may be overrating the ranged tomes, though, because I always give all three Hammerne uses to them.

Titania
Kieran
Oscar
Jill
Reyson
---
Boyd
Ike

Pfeh

But not so late as someone like HM hector or Roy, right?

No...And?

Looks good.

High Tier

Astrid
Boyd
Brom
Ike
Makalov
Marcia
Mist
Muarim
Nephenee
Soren
Stefan
Zihark

Additions? Subtractions?

We already finished this one at FEFF. Reikken did it.

Zihark out, maybe Brom
Add Tanith

no u

Astrid
Boyd
Ike
Makalov
Marcia
Mist
Muarim
Nephenee
Soren
Stefan
Tanith
---
Brom
Zihark

:hmm:

How is Astrid better than Boyd? =/

Because "A" comes before "B".

Take out Astrid and Makalov. They come underleveled, weask, halfway through the game, and end up with stats worse than Kieran, and don't even have very good supports.

And get rid of Nephenee. Devdan's better than her.

They are both still great units thanks to being mounted and growing fast enough. Makalov never dies ever, and his offense is at least respectable.

And you're kidding about Devden being better than her, right? It's just your fanboyism?

If you give them some bexp so that they're not behind, they get stats better than Kieran's.
If you mean without any bexp....then of course they have lower stats. If they didn't, they would be in top tier with him.
Astrid-Makalov is a good support.

No they don't.

Kieran:
HP 49.2 Str 26.5 Mag 7.05 Skl 25.5 Spd 24.8 Lck 14.75 Def 22.8 Res 12.1

Astrid:
HP 42.1 Str 23.2 Mag 11.6 Skl 28.9 Spd 27 Lck 18.2 Def 19.4 Res 15.5

Makalov:
HP 50.4 Str 26.95 Mag 5.45 Skl 22.05 Spd 26.5 Lck 15.25 Def 25.05 Res 10.8

Makalov has a little better stats, but only because of def. Astrid... not even close. And you have to pour in a crapload of Bexp in on them and stuff. Really, why should I waste two spots on my team for some worse-than-Kierans? Two spots is a lot of exp being sucked up. Really, if you use a lot of units in HM, there's no way they can get to 20/20. I did HM with six units and they all barely made it.

Also, maybe Devdan's not better than Nephenee, but she still sucks.

Nephenee:
HP 43.6 Str 22.8 Mag 9.4 Skl 28 Spd 26 Lck 14 Def 22.2 Res 13

I mean, she's stuck with Lances, starts out horrible with a horrible weapon rank, and in the end has mediocre at best stats.

They can't get to 20/20? Dude, I get like a team of 12 units all to level 20/20 by the end of the game. <___<;;

And I think I'll just ignore that post as all you did was place facts and not actually play them in any direction other than saying that they were bad. Which isn't proving anything.

Astrid has Paragon, nppb. She has a level lead.

because then you would only have 2-3 units on your team...
omg, Ike is worse than Kieran. down to mid tier
omg, Soren is worse than Kieran. down to mid tier
omg, Oscar is worse than Kieran. down to mid tier
omg, Boyd is worse than Kieran. down to mid tier
,,,,,,

Yeah, level lead. Uh huh. Kieran should be promoted by the time you get Astrid, and even with Paragon, not seeing any level leads there. :|

Yeah, all of those save Oscar aren't directly competing with Kieran. Therefore, your logic is flawed. it's like saying that Pent is worse than Raven (or whatever the crap you think the orde ris, it's all different everywhere), so Pent needs to go down. However, saying Harken is worse than Raven and needs to go down is a valid arguement.

@Other Guy: You should be able to see for yourself the stats. I don't have to point out how Astrid has less str, def, etc, when you should be able to see for yourself. :|

Banning GB from contributing for being stubborn about logic that doesn't make sense. Each unit compares to another unit, otherwise we would end up with a completely scrambled list and would be able to decide from who's better between Mist and Boyd. Things can always be measured objectively.

Kieran gaining 6 levels in 2 chapters when one chapter is almost impossible for him? Madness.

NO ONE is promoting at chapter 13. NO ONE.

>_>

Ike needs moar above Astrid. Soren needs moar above Mist for attacking res

The list is still alphabetical. D;

Boyd
Ike
Makalov
Astrid
Stefan
Marcia
Soren
Mist
Tanith
Nephenee
Muarim
---
Brom
Zihark

This'll need some work. :hmm:

Mist needs moar above Soren for actually having def and mobility and not starting out as the worst unit on your team.

hates mist but oh wellz

Boyd
Ike
Makalov
Astrid
Stefan
Marcia
Mist
Soren
Tanith
Nephenee
Muarim
---
Brom
Zihark

Maybe mist up a bit more, and I'm not sure about where I placed Nephenee.

for half of her life on your team she isn't using that defense and lacks mobility. And Soren is easily doing 6-9 damage (before doubling) to the enemies you fight in chapter 4.

And Soren being on your frontline? Madness

Also, I think Marcia and Tanith are rly close, with Tanith better. Marcia has moar atk, and Tanith has moar avo, and then Tanith has Reinforce.

less than half; about a third
Anyway, so what? Soren also doesn't have good offense yet.

lol @ the "-9" part. He has 8 base atk. The enemies don't have zero res, let alone negative res. 6-7 damage, and he only doubles the ones with Steel. And he also dies in two hits and never dodges, and there's hoards of them, and there's also a few Archers. Trying to level him up makes chapter 4 much harder.

Exactly. His durability sucks.
...what's your point?

>.>;;

I coulda sworn I've seen Soren do 9 damage in this chapter... musta leveled up.

and why is he getting attacked? Are you trying to get him killed or something?

I think the time that Marcia is being good before Tanith holds some weight. Looking at Tanith's stats again I did underrate her, but I'm not sure that she's above Marcia.

Who do they support you reckon?

EDIT: Oh, and yeah, Reikken, Soren is quite possibly doing 9 dmg this chapter. <__<;;

Oh, please. >.>

Except for the fact that Marcia joins quite underleveled. If she wasn't a flier, I would hold it against her.

Each other, and then Kieran for Marcia and Reyson or maybe Oscar for Tanith

He would have to gain 2 mag to do that

Which is quite possible.

Marcia bonuses:
2.5 Atk, 17.5 Hit, 20 Eva

Tanith Bonuses:
2.5 Atk, 12.5 Hit, 25 Eva

Tanith has better bonuses, and Marcia's support lead is counterweighted by Tanith's level lead. So ... hmmm.... I guess I'm leaning towards Tanith but the difference is hardly there, and if Marcia is doing good for any bit of time before Tanith then there's something in her favour, but the you have reinforce.