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Title: Quoting others


Dez384 - December 14, 2007 04:20 AM (GMT)
Many speeches include quotes from other people. Often in debates people use quotes to advance their argument.

But are quotes really that useful? Can we not express our thoughts by ourself? Does one truly need the validate their statements with the words of others?

Zihark - December 14, 2007 02:58 PM (GMT)
Well quotes are generally only used to justify ones points when they don't know enough on the subject or when the quote is from somebody that has an excessive degree in the subject. That alone brings up a few points. However, some people don't quote others simply because they're good enough to explain what they're thinking.

Which really seems like an extremely rare trait these days.

ImortalDeamon - December 14, 2007 05:26 PM (GMT)
Quotes are just tools. Many tools.

Dez384 - December 14, 2007 06:22 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (ImortalDeamon @ Dec 14 2007, 01:26 PM)
Quotes are just tool. Many tools.

Yes, quotes are tools, but are they truly useful? A good speaker can express their one thoughts without quotes. Using quotes is like showing your own inadequacy. You need someone else's words to validate your argument. Using quotes makes it seem as if your own word is not good enough for people to listen too.

ImmortalDeamon - December 14, 2007 06:30 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Dez384 @ Dec 14 2007, 01:22 PM)
QUOTE (ImortalDeamon @ Dec 14 2007, 01:26 PM)
Quotes are just tool. Many tools.

Yes, quotes are tools, but are they truly useful? A good speaker can express their one thoughts without quotes. Using quotes is like showing your own inadequacy. You need someone else's words to validate your argument. Using quotes makes it seem as if your own word is not good enough for people to listen too.

Well you could use a quote to explain something to someone who couldn't understand otherwise.

Zihark - December 14, 2007 06:37 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (ImmortalDeamon @ Dec 14 2007, 09:30 AM)
QUOTE (Dez384 @ Dec 14 2007, 01:22 PM)
QUOTE (ImortalDeamon @ Dec 14 2007, 01:26 PM)
Quotes are just tool. Many tools.

Yes, quotes are tools, but are they truly useful? A good speaker can express their one thoughts without quotes. Using quotes is like showing your own inadequacy. You need someone else's words to validate your argument. Using quotes makes it seem as if your own word is not good enough for people to listen too.

Well you could use a quote to explain something to someone who couldn't understand otherwise.

However, if you were to modify the words you used it's possible to make what you're getting across clearer than the quote. The quote would have to the _most_ clear way of sending the message possible for this to not work. Which would be ridiculous, in any event.

Quotes are always more static than your own words.

ImmortalDeamon - December 14, 2007 06:40 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Zihark @ Dec 14 2007, 01:37 PM)
QUOTE (ImmortalDeamon @ Dec 14 2007, 09:30 AM)
QUOTE (Dez384 @ Dec 14 2007, 01:22 PM)
QUOTE (ImortalDeamon @ Dec 14 2007, 01:26 PM)
Quotes are just tool. Many tools.

Yes, quotes are tools, but are they truly useful? A good speaker can express their one thoughts without quotes. Using quotes is like showing your own inadequacy. You need someone else's words to validate your argument. Using quotes makes it seem as if your own word is not good enough for people to listen too.

Well you could use a quote to explain something to someone who couldn't understand otherwise.

However, if you were to modify the words you used it's possible to make what you're getting across clearer than the quote. The quote would have to the _most_ clear way of sending the message possible for this to not work. Which would be ridiculous, in any event.

Quotes are always more static than your own words.

People also tend to pay attention more about the subject in mind when they know the quote is from someone famous.

Dez384 - December 14, 2007 07:36 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (ImmortalDeamon @ Dec 14 2007, 02:40 PM)
QUOTE (Zihark @ Dec 14 2007, 01:37 PM)
QUOTE (ImmortalDeamon @ Dec 14 2007, 09:30 AM)
QUOTE (Dez384 @ Dec 14 2007, 01:22 PM)
QUOTE (ImortalDeamon @ Dec 14 2007, 01:26 PM)
Quotes are just tool. Many tools.

Yes, quotes are tools, but are they truly useful? A good speaker can express their one thoughts without quotes. Using quotes is like showing your own inadequacy. You need someone else's words to validate your argument. Using quotes makes it seem as if your own word is not good enough for people to listen too.

Well you could use a quote to explain something to someone who couldn't understand otherwise.

However, if you were to modify the words you used it's possible to make what you're getting across clearer than the quote. The quote would have to the _most_ clear way of sending the message possible for this to not work. Which would be ridiculous, in any event.

Quotes are always more static than your own words.

People also tend to pay attention more about the subject in mind when they know the quote is from someone famous.

That discredits you. One should aim to be quoted than to quote others.

ImmortalDeamon - December 15, 2007 02:08 AM (GMT)
See my mad schrillz just had me 3 quotes.

Myke - December 15, 2007 10:04 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Dez384 @ Dec 14 2007, 02:36 PM)
QUOTE (ImmortalDeamon @ Dec 14 2007, 02:40 PM)
QUOTE (Zihark @ Dec 14 2007, 01:37 PM)
QUOTE (ImmortalDeamon @ Dec 14 2007, 09:30 AM)
QUOTE (Dez384 @ Dec 14 2007, 01:22 PM)
QUOTE (ImortalDeamon @ Dec 14 2007, 01:26 PM)
Quotes are just tool. Many tools.

Yes, quotes are tools, but are they truly useful? A good speaker can express their one thoughts without quotes. Using quotes is like showing your own inadequacy. You need someone else's words to validate your argument. Using quotes makes it seem as if your own word is not good enough for people to listen too.

Well you could use a quote to explain something to someone who couldn't understand otherwise.

However, if you were to modify the words you used it's possible to make what you're getting across clearer than the quote. The quote would have to the _most_ clear way of sending the message possible for this to not work. Which would be ridiculous, in any event.

Quotes are always more static than your own words.

People also tend to pay attention more about the subject in mind when they know the quote is from someone famous.

That discredits you. One should aim to be quoted than to quote others.

Okay, listen. Someone you've never met before walks up wearing a tattered trenchcoat and stinking of booze, and he's trying to convince you the world is actually flat. But you know very well it's round, because that's what your mother taught you.

He then quotes Albert Einstein, Sir Isaac Newton and the current Dalai Llama all stating that the world is flat, and providing extremely convincing arguments.
You look into this, and find that the world's greatest minds all agree on this fact.

It's called credibility. He could sit there for hours and try and tell you the world is flat but you wouldn't give a damn. His word means nothing to you.

Dez384 - December 15, 2007 10:11 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Myke @ Dec 15 2007, 06:04 PM)
QUOTE (Dez384 @ Dec 14 2007, 02:36 PM)
QUOTE (ImmortalDeamon @ Dec 14 2007, 02:40 PM)
QUOTE (Zihark @ Dec 14 2007, 01:37 PM)
QUOTE (ImmortalDeamon @ Dec 14 2007, 09:30 AM)
QUOTE (Dez384 @ Dec 14 2007, 01:22 PM)
QUOTE (ImortalDeamon @ Dec 14 2007, 01:26 PM)
Quotes are just tool. Many tools.

Yes, quotes are tools, but are they truly useful? A good speaker can express their one thoughts without quotes. Using quotes is like showing your own inadequacy. You need someone else's words to validate your argument. Using quotes makes it seem as if your own word is not good enough for people to listen too.

Well you could use a quote to explain something to someone who couldn't understand otherwise.

However, if you were to modify the words you used it's possible to make what you're getting across clearer than the quote. The quote would have to the _most_ clear way of sending the message possible for this to not work. Which would be ridiculous, in any event.

Quotes are always more static than your own words.

People also tend to pay attention more about the subject in mind when they know the quote is from someone famous.

That discredits you. One should aim to be quoted than to quote others.

Okay, listen. Someone you've never met before walks up wearing a tattered trenchcoat and stinking of booze, and he's trying to convince you the world is actually flat. But you know very well it's round, because that's what your mother taught you.

He then quotes Albert Einstein, Sir Isaac Newton and the current Dalai Llama all stating that the world is round, and providing extremely convincing arguments.
You look into this, and find that the world's greatest minds all agree on this fact.

It's called credibility. He could sit there for hours and try and tell you the world is flat but you wouldn't give a damn. His word means nothing to you.

If one's aim is to prove a point, then quotes can be useful, but if one's aim is to credit themselves, then quotes see, detrimental.

Myke - December 15, 2007 10:16 PM (GMT)
If you're arguing something, and noone believes you, and you pull out a quote that proves you right, what happens?
All of a sudden your word actually means something. You were right. Someone important and intelligent agrees with you.

Suddenly, people are actually listening to you when you talk and not just dismissing everything you say as garbage.

EDIT: Um, I dunno if I'm being clear, so lemme try and act out what I just said.

I submit this to wikipedia.
QUOTE
Eddie Murphey is actually the child of Whoopi Goldberg and a donkey. This is evident by his huge penis and hideous teeth.

(Of course it would be much larger and part of an article on Eddie, but whatever. This is just to help explain)

Almost instantly, I get a warning and my article is deleted.

Alternatively, let's say I posted this.

QUOTE
Eddie Murphey is actually the child of Whoopi Goldberg and a donkey. This is evident by his huge penis and hideous teeth.

"...the DNA tests and paternity tests were undeniable."
Dr Julius, London Base Hospital Medical Log, 12th August 1962.


My quote is checked, and what do you know? My article is uploaded.

A week or so later, I post another article claiming that the moon is indeed nonexistant, just an illusion cast by light waves or some ****. I quote some scientists talking science, and the US government's formal apology and admittance that the moon landing was staged in new mexico.
Boom, my article goes up.

I submit another article, this time with no references. It sounds just as bull**** as my other articles, but I've been right so far.

I have credibility.

Zihark - December 15, 2007 10:35 PM (GMT)
Well if you're only forcing your thoughts on somebody, then you would need quotes if you had a lack of credibility. However, if you explained everything very clearly and hit every corner of the subject, then a quote couldn't say any more than you could.

Well, I guess that depends on how close minded the person you're discussing it with is.

Inuyasha Lover - March 1, 2008 08:54 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
Many speeches include quotes from other people. Often in debates people use quotes to advance their argument.

That is true.

QUOTE
But are quotes really that useful?

yes, they can help prove a point.

QUOTE
Can we not express our thoughts by ourself?

No, people can. Its just sometimes people need a little help to express what they want to say.

QUOTE
Does one truly need the validate their statements with the words of others?

no, but in some cases yes, because they want to further their point




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