wooooo

dont fail, othin

Cormag vs. Ross. The brother of one of Grado's Imperial 3 vs. a kid who barely knows how to fight. Lulz.

Ross joins in Ch.2 as a LV1 Journeyman. Not only does he have the lamest-sounding class name in the game, he's also the worst character you have then.

HP: 15
Str: 5
Skl: 2
Spd: 3
Def: 3
Res: 0
Lck: 8

Weakest unit in just about all areas for the next several chapters. He beats a couple units in maybe a point or two in Str, and most of them in a few points of Luck, but those leads are less than insignificant against the leads, usually very large ones, everywhere else.

Ross isn't helping the team at all. Sure, Cormag isn't either, but while Ross is forcing the team to slow doen, set up kills for him, and protect him, Cormag isn't hurting the team at all.

Earlygame, Cormag >>> Ross.


Ross does get sorta good... eventually. By which time everyone else has gotten better. It's also around when Cormag joins.

HP: 30
Str: 14
Skl: 9
Spd: 10
Def: 12
Res: 2
Lck: 4

Battle stats with Iron Lance:

HP: 30
Atk: 21
Hit: 98
Crit: 4
AS: 10
Avo: 24
Def: 12
Res: 2
Ddg: 4

Ross isn't likely to be beating much of that. He can win by a few points in Atk and Avo, but Cormag's wins in Hit, AS, and Def make up for that. Cormag also can use several types of weapons Ross couldn't without taking a massive AS loss, and when you add Cormag's better mobility and that Ross is relying on getting a Garcia support to even compare as well as he is, it's clear who's winning here.

Midgame, Cormag >>> Ross.


This isn't likely to change fast, if at all. Ross will be gaining EXP a bit faster at first, but Cormag has the same or better growths in all areas except for losing out 5% in the two least important stats. Cormag is also building a Duessel support to further increase his lead, while Ross's only possible support option will have already maxed out if it is happening. It's just more of the same except Ross is even worse off.

Lategame, Cormag >>> Ross.


Cormag >>>>>

Yeah sure, he’s your weakest unit. He’s also 10 levels behind everyone else, at least. (lol, Seth is 30 levels higher.) The fact that he has leads at all testifies to the potential that he has. He has awesome potential; his growths are great and he has more levels to grow than anyone else in the game.

lol @ trying to argue that not existing is > existing.

Ross grows fast, gaining EXP faster than anyone else on the team. And he isn’t made of glass either; he can take a hit without dying, maybe two. And if you aren’t stupid, that’s all that he’s going to have to take during the enemy phase. Heal, rinse, and repeat.

Ross’s Hatchet is amazing for leveling him, because enemies won’t counterattack, and he has a better chance of hitting than with an Iron Axe. Enemies are also discouraged from attacking him at a range, because they have other people to target that won’t counterattack.

Ross isn’t hard to train. Give him a little extra attention for about 3 chapters, and then he’ll surpass most of the other people on your team.

Care to prove it?

I’ll have Ross at level 10 with an Iron Axe:

HP: 29 (-1)
ATK: 24 (+3)
HIT: 101 (+3)
AS: 8 (-2)
CRT: 4 (0)
DEF: 7 (-5)
RES: 4 (+2)
AVO: 32 (+8)
CEV: 15 (+11)

Decimals dropped. Numbers in parenthesis indicate the difference between his stats and Cormag’s, using the ones you supplied.

Um… right. Ross is winning in Hit for starters, and the minute AS difference isn’t going to make much of a difference against most enemies.

And this is with Ross completely unsupported.

They both have the same CON (11), so there isn’t a massive AS difference when both are using heavier weapons.

Ye… no. Ross is on par with Cormag even when completely unsupported.

Giving him B Garcia gives him:
+2 ATK, +10 HIT, +10 AVO, +10 CRT

Which just gives Ross a huge offense lead on Cormag. And Ross is definitely supporting Garcia if both are fielded; they serve similar purposes, so they’ll be near each other often, the support is super fast, and Fire x Fire is ideal for 2 units so focused on offense.

Ross’s growths:
HP: 70% STR: 50% SKL: 35% SPD: 30% DEF: 25% RES: 20% LCK: 40%
Cormag’s growths:
HP: 85% STR: 55% SKL: 40% SPD: 45% DEF: 25% RES: 15% LCK: 35%

HP: Cormag might have 15% more growth in HP, but in the end, he only averages 7 more HP than Ross, and both have a fair chance at capping it anyway. Not game breaking.

STR: Cormag’s growth is 5% higher, but he ends up cap-ramming it, and Ross averages 2 more points of Strength in the end due to this.

SKL: Again, Cormag has 5% more, but this results in 1 more SKL than Ross in the endgame, and with Ross getting lots of HIT from his supports, Cormag’s +1 SKL means nothing.

SPD: This is the only truly solid win that Cormag has on Ross. Ross can still double reliably and one-round stuff with his massive STR stat though, and gets lots of AVO from supports. Ross also has 1 more CON than Cormag post-promotion, which helps with the heavier weapons.

DEF: Tied in growths.

RES: Ross lols at Cormag’s pathetic 6 RES at 20/20. Least important stat? The last few chapters are riddled with magic users, and Gorgons with Shadowshot will prove problematic for Cormag, not to mention that he has a high chance of getting petrified, since dodging status attacks is based on RES.

LCK: Ross’s growth is only 5% higher, but he averages over 10 more LCK than Cormag, and LCK helps almost everywhere. Ross’s HIT, AVO, and CEV will all benefit from his massive LCK stat, while Cormag isn’t getting this added bonus.

So, is Cormag really better in the earlygame? Definitely not, because he doesn’t exist.

Is he better in the midgame? No, since Ross is better than him when he arrives.

Is he better in the lategame? No, because Ross is pretty much beating him in every area aside from SPD and DEF, and a small loss in HP.

Being at a lower level doesn't make him any better at combat, and potential has nothing to do with earlygame. The point remains: He's doing horrible at combat.

But Ross isn't just existing. He's being used, which means he's taking resources and Exp from the rest of your team, but not helping the team at all. Cormag may not be helping the team either, but he isn't taking resources from the rest of the team.

Not taking resources >>> Taking resources

A "Little" extra attention?

Eirika LV6 Lord
HP: 19.5
Str: 6.0
Skl: 11.0
Spd: 12.0
Def: 4.5
Res: 2.5
Luck: 8.0

Franz LV5 Cavalier
HP: 23.2
Str: 8.6
Skl: 6.6
Spd: 9.0
Def: 7.0
Res: 1.8
Luck: 3.6

Gilliam LV7 Knight
HP: 27.7
Str: 10.4
Skl: 7.0
Spd: 3.9
Def: 10.7
Res: 3.6
Luck: 3.9

Vanessa LV4 Peg. Knight
HP: 18.5
Str: 6.0
Skl: 8.7
Spd: 12.8
Def: 6.6
Res: 5.9
Luck: 5.7

Garcia LV6 Fighter
HP: 29.6
Str: 9.3
Skl: 7.8
Spd: 7.4
Def: 5.5
Res: 1.3
Luck: 3.8

Neimi LV4 Archer
HP: 18.6
Str: 5.4
Skl: 6.5
Spd: 7.8
Def: 3.4
Res: 3.0
Luck: 5.5

Colm LV5 Thief
HP: 20.3
Str: 5.2
Skl: 5.2
Spd: 11.9
Def: 3.8
Res: 1.6
Luck: 9.4

Artur LV4 Monk
HP: 20.1
Mag: 7.0
Skl: 7.0
Spd: 8.8
Def: 2.3
Res: 7.1
Luck: 2.5

Lute LV3 Mage
HP: 17.9
Str: 7.3
Spd: 6.6
Skl: 7.9
Def: 3.3
Res: 5.8
Luck: 8.9

All the available characters other than Ross, Seth, and Moulder after your "3 chapters". Their exact levels may be debatable, but the point still stands. Now, a look at what happens even if he manages to be promoted by then...


Eirika: He can get a nice lead on her in Str and a small one in HP, but she's still winning in Hit by 8 and Evade by 9, then after weapons are factored the Hit lead rises
to 23. When you factor in Eirika's massive advantage in doubling ability, it's clear that he has no chance against even one of the more mediocre characters.

Franz: Ross's biggest lead in a stat that actually matters is 2.9 in Str. It's also his only lead in at least a point other than Res and Luck, the two least important
stats. That against 12 Hit, 3.3 AS, 1.7 Def, and a way better class? Ross stands less than no chance here.

Gilliam: 5.4 Def outweighs most of Ross's minor wins. It's pretty close to a tie here, but one tie if he gets a huge amount of "Extra attention" isn't even close to what
you've been claiming he could do.

Vanessa: 7.1 Spd, 2.1 Skl, 1.3 Def, and an awesome class against a few points of Str? Vanessa doubles, so she does more damage than Ross's one hit will do, giving him nothing on her win in Evade and a much better class.

Garcia: Another one that's pretty close if Ross could get that far, but Garcia's wins in HP, Skl, and Spd are worth more than a couple extra points of Atk and Luck. Even if it wasn't, Ross still isn't anywhere near having made all those stolen kills worth it.

Neimi: He can beat the archer, but it's not like that one win means much.

Colm: Thief utility + Massive Avo lead + h4x at doubling >>>>>>> Ross

Artur: 1-2 range, being way better at doubling, and being able to hit reliably compared to a few points of Atk and a minor durability lead. Lulz.

Lute: See Artur, pretty much.


So, after three chapters, Ross can tie a third at best of the units... if you feed him ~6 kills per chapter, which is about half the ones there are at that point. He's doing worse against less units and with way more babying than you suggested.

Ross is a massive Exp thief and sucking, or being an Exp thief and sucking massively. He's in no way doing well at all earlygame.

So he's stealing at least 3 kills per chapter on average? You're feeding a total of at least 30 kills to one character by that point, which is a massive chunk out of the total enemies you can face then. Not happening.

It's more likely going to be closer to this:

HP: 27.5 (-2.5)
Atk: 22.5 (+1.5)
Hit: 98.4 (+0.4)
AS: 7.5 (-2.5)
Crit: 4.1 (0.1)
Def: 6.8 (-5.2)
Res: 4.0 (+2)
Avo: 29 (+5)
CEV: 14 (+10)

Considering Cormag's numerous other advantages I mentioned before, this isn't even close.

I'll concede Hit, although it's a tie if anything. The AS difference, though, is massive, unless you're trying to say that there aren't a lot of enemies with 4-6 AS.

Axes are heavier than lances. If Ross equips a Steel Axe, he's down to 3.5 AS and not only can't double ****, he gets doubled by ****. Cormag has 8 AS and could double Ross in addition to plenty of enemies.

The fact that they're so similar is the reason the support doesn't exist. Who needs two units sucking at the same thing at once?

A win is a win.

20/20 stats don't matter because they don't exist, especially in FE8. Ross may get a lead of almost a point in the last couple chapters, but it's unlikely he'll get even that.

Cormag also has more Hit from his weapon, and by then he'll be getting some from his supports as well. It'll wind up about tied, but the point is that Ross has nothing on this lead.

Ross is fine as long as he fights enemies with below 12 AS. Unfortunately for him, there are plenty that have more, and against those, he's screwed. As for the Con, Axes weigh more than one point over the corresponding Lance, so Ross is actually losing even more because of that. Also, Cormag is getting as much Avo as Ross from supports if that Garcia support somehow exists. Which it doesn't, so he's winning.

Which means Ross will never do anything about that significant lead.

It has some use, but not nearly as much as the other stats. Cormag's many other advantages outweigh this.

It barely helps Ross in Hit, doesn't even make him catch up in Avo, and boosts his CEV even further beyond the point of mattering. yay?

Once again: Not helping but not using resources >>> Not helping but using resources.

...If you let him steal a massive amount of kills and ignore Cormag's huge advantages.

They tie in Str, and Cormag's Spd win >>> Ross's Res and Luck wins combined. He also has more HP, Def, a way better class, actual supports... =/