He has Lute, I have Moulder. Because I just love debating god tier units %::%

3 posts each, I guess I'm starting.

%::%

Moulder the Boulder FTW.

Actually, I'm not sure who I would like better. Hopefully this'll be a close debate.

Um.... uh......

Well, seeing as how I've ostricized myself from the FE community for some odd months, I don't know the latest in FE8 logic. Needless to say Banzai has never known FE8 logic so I think I'm good. %::%

Moulder starts in chapter 2 as a Level 3 Priest, meaning he is ~ Eirika and higher then Franz. No, that doesn't matter but I felt like putting it anyway.

He heals for 14 right out of the bat, meaning he usually heals 100% health for all units, including Eirika, Ross, and Vanessa. Note how Eirika, Ross, and Vanessa are among the most useful units in this chapter due to Unit recruiting. And what else? Vanessa supports Moulder. This makes Vanessa survival mandatory. Let's look at stats:

Oh yeah, same affinity %::%

k, Chapter 3. New units: Neimi and Colm. Neimi is... average. But Colm. COLM! Probably the best foot unit you can get. Stealing things and having terrific stand-alone defenses and pretty good stand-alone offenses is awesome. Guess who supports him? ...Neimi... and MOULDER!!! Let's look at the bonuses from their supports:

Moulder benefits after promotion, which is around (level 13) chapter 11 on Ephraim's route and I don't even care where on Eirika's but it's probably the same. Having a level 13/1 Moulder with supported Colm and supported Vanessa is around...

This entire chapter on either path is monsters. Moulder has the win because any Mogalls he will have Slayer AND WTA against. Lute has WTD, which is lame. I don't know or care what her stats are because she is infinitely inferior to Moulder in offense because he has Slayer and she doesn't.

Moving onto chapter 15, where Lute is finally effing promoted (unless you actually didn't use a GR on Artur/Natasha...lol) and is probably 20/1 with a B Vanessa and A Artur. Moulder is level probably about level 5 due to massive offense against monsters and staves, and has A Vanessa, B Colm. Let's compare : D

Oh... um, Lute has the statistical-- wait, she DOESN'T!!! Lute only has 2 mov in chapter 15, and Moulder has 3. Insta-win because Moulder can actually go places %::%

Um... Chapter 17 on, I don't need to say anything because they are all monster chapters were Moulder is just laughably better. I dont' have enough time so go banzai %::%

Unfortunately, Sety, you made several factual and tactical errors in that post.

For starters, the claim that "Chapters 17 and on" are all monster chapters is completely false. In fact, Chapter 17 and 19 are both jam-packed with regular units. And Chapter 18? Chapter 18 is basically a mad dash to kill all of the Gorgon Eggs before they hatch. The few regular monsters in Chapter 18 are simply there to get in your way and slow you down. In fact, with the exception of the boss and the other two or so Gorgons on the map, the enemies are all incredibly underleveled and can be easily dispatched by unpromoted units.

Also, I like how you say that Vanessa's survival is mandatory. Does that mean that Moulder can't do anything without supports? So, from now on, Moulder has to be within four spaces of Vanessa, even though she has two more move than him and can use her flying abilities for much greater things? That seems really restrictive of Vanessa just to make an apparently bad unit worthwhile. It also could be restrictive of Moulder. What if a unit has to be healed but it's right outside of the support zone? BUT OH NO, Moulder can't leave the support zone, because it's mandatory for him to have supports. MANDATORY! Also, Lute can support Vanessa as well, so if it's that godly for Moulder, shouldn't it be equally godly for Lute? You said that Moulder and Vanessa had the same affinity and then implied that made the support godly, but Lute also has the same affinity as Vanessa and would thus get the exact same boosts. You could argue that Vanessa and Moulder have more time to start a support, but Vanessa wastes Chapter 2 Rescuing Ross and Garcia and thus there's really only a one chapter difference where supports could be built. Lute can also support Artur who you seem to think is good or something (at least good enough to be promoted before Lute), so whatev there.

BTW, about Chapter 11. Moulder may have Slayer, but Monsters have about 0 res, so Lute can still easily cleave through those monsters with her impressive mag stat; which is the highest growing in the game. In fact, she very easily overkills them. And against the Mogalls, she also has impressive Res, so they're still doing 0 damage to her, WTA or not- Magic using enemies compensate for most playable unit's shit res by having shit mag. And Lute also has enough Mag to kill these guys, despite they're higher-than-normal Res- None of them really have much in the way of HP.

The point is, Moulder may have Slayer, but Lute has such ridiculously high mag that she doesn't need it. And when in Chapters 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, and 19 roll around, you'll find Moulder doing piddling amounts of damage and Lute STILL destroying everything. It's only on Chapters 11, half of Chapter 12 (depending on the route), 18, 20, and Endgame where Moulder can actually kill things due to his shit mag. What's Moulder supposed to be doing in those five chapters from 13-17? How will he get his exp? Healing things? Killing the occasional enemy that was only damaged by one of your other units? Lol. I see no reason why Moulder needs to be babied through those chapters just so he can kill monsters, something that is ridiculously easy to do anyways.

As for you saying that Lute isn't promoting until Chapter 15, you're a tad wrong. You get three Guiding Rings before Ch. 15 (I'm not sure where, but I'm conveniently at that chapter in my latest FESS playthrough, and I have two Rings in the convoy with one promoted magic user). You do offer two possible people who could take the Ring before Lute, but one of those was Natasha. Are you seriously telling me that you should use BOTH Moulder and Natasha? All they'll do is take away from their exp pool and make it take longer before either can promote. And what if Moulder promotes later than Chapter 11 due to this? What if he becomes completely useless from the time he promotes until Chapter 18??? Seriously, Lute should obviously be trained before Natasha. Also, I could bring up a bebate on Artur, but this is a Moulder/Lute bebate and not an Artur/Lute bebate, so I'll let it stay. Either way, Lute can promote like way earlier than you suggest so those stats are glub glub down the toilet. In fact, I don't even get why Moulder should get the first Guiding Ring considering he's only going to be useful in like the last two chapters anyways so you might as well keep him just healing until then and give the Rings to the units who can actually kill regular units.

Could I debate one of u guys using Ephraim? (: