(Not a scratch on his hood or roof)

Well Russell set up a meeting for us with Lloyd England the cab driver. Russell made to sure to surprise them so there would be no way to say they were prepared for our visit.

Well we found Lloyd's house and saw a newer taxi out front. We didn't see the old damaged one he claims was sitting in his yard forever after getting it back from the impound yard the next day. Apparently they just moved it 90 miles away. We weren't able to examine it.

We sat down with Lloyd and his wife and pulled out the images from that day on a laptop. The eternal question that Russell and I debated was answered.

THE BIG POLE IS WHAT HE CLAIMS WENT THROUGH HIS CAB. Not the piece as Russell was first led to believe. To be honest, I had to watch Russell expression change. I could tell he was shocked, confused or completely blown away. But picture after picture, he claimed it was a large base piece that speared it's way into the windshield.


The one thing we couldn't get over is that this man is allowed to drive. He seemed to be too senile or old to be driving a cab. I can't describe it, but it seemed as if he was programmed with this story that he only seemed to have memorized only until specific questions or details were asked about. One bizarre part is where he mentioned that the man who pulled up and helped him with the pole didn't say a word. Just helped him with the pole, got back in his van, and drove off.

We did get digital photos of film photos his wife had took 9/12, when they got the car back. The front passenger seat didn't have any rip or tear in it. But the most bizarre thing I noticed sitting on the seat of his car was a David Icke book called "Children of the Matrix". I nearly shat myself. Here is Lloyd traveling on Rt 27 with a conspiracy book about reptoid beings and the NWO sitting on his front seat. It gets impounded with the book in it. We see it still sitting in photographs from the next day it was towed back to him. What was really funny is we were cracking agent, jewish, reptilian jokes the whole time we were there, even talking about David Icke specifically. Too wierd. "Catcher in the Rye" anyone?



Book on his seat:



He also seemed to want to convey that the hole was too small for the plane, and like Russell had also mentioned, he believed, no he "KNOWS" that Flight 93 was shot down.

He was also wearing a belt buckle both Russell and I had taken notice of:

http://www.blueknights.org/

Turns out also that Lloyd's wife worked for the FBI in some capacity as well.

I am completely reeling from this interview. i don't know what to think. I am going through everything from an old senile guy with a bad memory, to a opportunist/exaggerator/15 of minutes of fame liar, to a hypnotized mind control victim.

Lloyd also gave Dylan an interview.





Next, Father Steven Mcgraw.

I still am utterly mesmorized with our experience at Lloyd's house and there is no question that this is extremely hard evidence to the fact that the downed light poles were staged.

What makes it particularly unbelievable is the fact that Russell set us up with a self guided tour of the VDOT center the day before we interviewed Lloyd. We physically examined the same type of pole that allegedly fell in Lloyd's cab.

I went to the base of the pole and had to do a squat lift to pick it up.

It was extremely heavy.

Russell even drew a picture of the cab and had Lloyd draw how the pole was stuck in it.

He said he would scan and post the picture for us so hopefully he will do that.

Basically Lloyd confirmed 100% that his account is that the long pole piece was sticking out of the cab and the mangled dashboard is what was holding the heavy (and longer end) up out of the window so as to not allow it to touch the hood of the car.

Naturally this is impossible due to gravity and the substantial weight and length of the pole.

Lloyd went on to explain that he even fell to the ground as he was pulling the pole out (with the mysteriously silent stranger that was helping him) because it was so heavy. (but yet it STILL never touched the hood?)

I lifted the end of the exact same type of pole.

There is no possible way it could have gone through that windshield without so much as scratching the hood

Tonight I will post the unreleased pictures of the cab with the "children of the matrix" book in it.

Oh yeah......

He also confirmed that he was cruising at about 40 mph, and "locked 'em up", meaning the brakes, after he was hit by the pole which caused him to end up sideways.

I suppose I haven't seen any scientific studies done on this but I would like to see somebody attempt to lock their brakes at anywhere near that speed and not leave so much as a miniscule tire mark on the road.

Thanks Lyte Trip. The weird "shit-O-meter" is spiking all over the place. I hope to see more from you and Russell.

Yes Cary that is an understatement. Weird shit indeed.

Get ready to be spooked out.

Here is our boy Lloyd showing us the other half of the dollar bill that he and another "survivor" found, tore in half, and both signed as a memorandum while walking home.



Now here are digital photos that I took of the pictures his wife pulled out that they took of the cab as it was being brought home.



You can clearly see "Children of the Matrix" and the unripped passenger seat in this one:








Now just LOOK at the is perfectly unblemished hood!





Sorry but as Russell put it.......there is NO CHANCE IN HELL that this pole is what made the damage as asserted repeatedly by Lloyd himself.

[thumbsup] [salute]

told you guys we were getting to the bottom of things. :D

Yeah but what a catch 22 with Lloyd!

He gave you this amazing eyewitness account of a plane that he supposedly saw knock the pole into his car that even HE doesn't believe is what caused the damage at the pentgon!


That would be gold if it weren't for the fact that his ENTIRE STORY is utterly ridiculous.

I'm sorry but proof of the downed light poles being staged is proof of inside job.

Fits well with the FDR. The aircraft was too high to hit any light pole... probably too high to descend and hit the pentagon in such a short distance as well. But we need a physics major for that...

By the way. .where are all the other cars in this picture? Wasnt this morning rush hour?

Anyone get pictures of this view during this time of the day when you were down there?

But the FDR conflicts with the eyewitnesses up columbia pike.

We even found random unpublished eyewitnesses that corroborate each other.

They place the plane on the other side of the navy annex between it and the antenna tower at the VDOT.

So far we have 3 working flight paths:

1) FDR

2) Eyewitnesses

3) Mechanical (light poles)


And they all conflict.
[dunno]

I have a lot more questions about the light poles now..

How far were each of the poles off from it original spot after being hit by a plane doing 500+ mph?

How much damage was done to each of the poles after such an impact?

Wouldn't either the side bars of the frontwindow or the hood be heavily damaged if a car drives 40 mph and gets hit by a light pole?

As I look of the position of the car and I see cars driving on the other side I can only assume that the car was driving in the direction towards the camera. If the plane is flying in the direction towards the Pentagon (on the background, so he was driving away from the Pentagon), the pole would also be headed towards the Pentagon.

If a flying pole hits a car in the front window, this would either cause the car to spin towards the Pentagon and the car had made a 270 degree spin which would definately cause mayor damage on the right side bar, or in case it could somehow cause the car to spin away from the Pentagon the pole would go even further towards the left side of the car and cause severe injuries on the driver.

Or am I wrong?

I dont expect the NTSB to get the ground graphics exactly spot on...Their grahics suck. After all... the pentagon is a square in the animation. However, the altitude is of major concern.

The FDR data when i worked my way backwards from the impact hole based on heading equals this.. does this match the eyewitnesses? This is from the FDR..




again.. the NTSB didnt spend much time on exact path.. but the altitude is most important. I spent alot of time on that path above based on the FDR data and headings..

I would also like to add that if there are cars driving at the other side, which I highly doubt after such an event. When a building is on fire we would have a major traffic jam here in Holland.

I can only assume this highway is quite busy, what are the chances a car spins this way and not get hit by another car?

Wouldn't there be a trafficjam on this side of the road where a car blocks a big part of the freeway?

Why are there no tyre tracks on a freeway where a light pole is flying around and a car was spinning?

A lot of those questions can be answered on Russells site Guussie.

pentagonresearch.com

But yeah.

You are right.

I can't reconcile the fact that only the windshield was damaged from the pole.

The only way I can think to justify his account is if the heavy base of the light pole was suspended on either the median barrier or the guard rail and slid with the car as it stopped.

Yes, but..

Since the car most likely spinned towards the camera it would indicate that the base of the pole is on 'this' side. This mean:

1. if the base loosens just before the car stops it will move away from camera since the spinning car would force it to swirl in the air. In the picture the base is facing the other way.

2. if the base remains on the guard rail while car stops. No need to lift the base side of the pole, but instead with 2 man lifting the small end while using the base as resting point. So less weight to carry.

3. The base remains on the guard rail while car stops. Lloyd confirmed the base side of the pole was very heavy. Why did he carry it to the middle of the road then?

In the "Lloyd England - Pentagon cabbie, Light pole hit his cab" thread (now on page 2), Russle Pickering posted the photo below which seems to show a scratch mark going from right to left, as if the base of the pole was drug across the highway.



Obviously, this doesn't explain how the pole could have been impaled through the taxi windshield while the base was balancing on the median divider. Especially if you assume the car has not been moved since the pole was extracted by Mr England and his silent assistant from the white van. However, it is another piece of physical evidence that we should consider.

The photo also shows how curved the post is toward the top. Maybe that could explain how the hood escaped damage?

I can't believe you are even entertaining the notion.

Have another look at that pole, Nevermore...

I never noticed the damage to the upper part of the hood (near the windshield). Could the top part of the pole have landed there with only the curved part entering the windshield?



This damage is also evident in one of Mr. England's photos.

Nope.

Did you read the accounts? I was there. He said that thing was laying across his hood.

There is no way Nevermore.

Englands lamp pole story is of cource impossible. I have never understand his story... but after the team went to Washington and visit Englands home and interviewed him etc... it is not only his story that I cant understand... but also England himselv.

Who is this man ? Why does he tell this strange story ?

He is btw one of the key witness.

Well, I have no answar.

And Father Stephen Mcgraw, who is also key winess... well, after I saw a pitcure of him and the interview... I dont know what to think!

Plus this doesn't look like damage to me.



It looks like a reflection.

But even if it was a dent to think of a pole that heavy and large having absorbed the kinetic energy of a 757 and barely dent only that tiny portion of the hood is still ludicrous.

No, I wasn't there but I have read all of the accounts in this and the other thread. I'm just trying to understand this from a logical perspective given the clues at hand.

He said the pole was laying "across his hood." Couldn't that mean it was laying parallel to his windshield? Or did he point at the picture and suggest it was at a different angle?

It does not look like damage to me too. Its a reflection.

And if a lamp pole went through it, like he say... it would be huge damage on the car. To me it is obvious. His story is just... absurd!

(my opinion)

The same "reflection" shows up in other photos?



I agree that it is still difficult to comprehend how the tip of this light pole could have damaged a moving car without causing more damage. I had always pictured a straight pole (or a fragment of it) penetrating the windshield in a "spear-like" way. Thinking of it that way makes the lack of damage to the hood (on impact or removal) inconceivable.

After being told that the large pole allegedly went through the windshield, noticing the curve of the top of that piece and what appears to be a large dent running parallel to the windshield I am trying to think of other rational explanations.

First he said sticking out and drew a picture for us. Then when we asked him to recreate what happened, he went to the front of his new taxi and showed us. He stood at the emblem on the hood and showed us it was right there. He was all over the place. He said nothing about it resting on the guardrail.

You are trying to reinvent the wheel here we already went through all of this.

You aren't even looking at the glass on the street, or his supposed stopping distance. He is right next to the pole that hit him, pole number one. This makes it pretty impossible for him to have that pole hit him and then be able to skid out in that spot.

Ask yourself where he got hit and where he started braking.

I missed this in the original post.

I look forward to seeing the drawing. Did Mr. England account for the bend in the top of the poll?

Sorry, I'm not trying to "re-invent the wheel" I'm just trying to process all of this information and come to some rational conclusion.

I believe Sherlock Holmes was fond of saying "When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

I'm assuming that Russel's diagram of where the car was struck and how long it took to stop is valid?

The "same" reflection?

Yes they are the same in the sense that both are reflections of the broken windshield on the hood.

But no they are not exactly the same due to the different positioning of the sun etc.

That is obvious.

It runs accross the entire hood in one picture but not the other plus you can even make out the "capitol cab" sign in the top photo!

However if it were damage I would expect the damage to appear more similar despite the positioning of the sun.

I appreciate your skepticism and attempt to consider all options.

Actually though......no.

Lloyd pretty much confirmed that Russell's diagram is incorrect.

Lloyd repeatedly stated that he "locked them up" and did not come to a slow rolling stop which is why he ended up sideways.

I'm sure we'll be hearing from Russell on this soon as he promised a retraction.

Now that you've pointed that out, they certainly do appear to be reflections.

Thanks.

Actually you can see the capitol cab sign in both of the pics which Nevermore is speaking of (not to mention the breaking class reflections). Nevermore, go to an optometrist.

Give him a break.

He admitted they are reflections.

didnt lloyd say, it was the large end of the light pole?...

It is clear as all hell that they were trying to SIMULATE a large pole crashing through his cab. Look at the dash board.

All of his accounts reflect this.

Hopefully I don't embarass myself again :D

If I understand correctly, Mr. England claims that the bottom part of the main post went through his windshield? I wonder if this claim can be proved false just by comparing the size of the base with the damage evident in the photos?





I'm assuming that the windshields on the two vehicles are approximately the same size and that the post is close enough to the white car to not cause drastic perspective issues (it does seem to be close to the scratch in the road made by the base and certainly within one lane stripe).

Is the perspective making the bottom of the post seem larger? Or am I right in assuming that it would be impossible for the base of the post to have entered the windshield without causing damage to the frame or upper part of the hood?

Having lifted one of these from the base, how would the size compare to a windshield?

Lloyd claims that the base of the pole was sticking out of the windshield into the air and that the bent top part of the pole was in his cab.

This is even more impossible because the base end of the pole is MUCH heavier and the notion that it wouldn't have so much as scraped the hood is quite ludicrous.

http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/1.jpg

This photo includes the license plate of the white car, in case anyone is interested
in doing a search. Looks like Virginia plate 1-665 to me. Does anyone know if this is a standard Virginia license plate?

Detailed photo of cab.

http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/1-1.jpg