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Title: Al Qaeda was really fabricated by the US
Description: It may come as a shock but it's true...


SittingBull - April 16, 2006 08:23 PM (GMT)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discu...dress=125x82465

I can add a testimony, shown in french filmmaker Mohammed Sifaoui 2003 film "On the trace of Osama Bin Laden" In it, a afghan clan leader says:

"Al Qaida? What should that be- you can search for Al Qaida here, but you won't find it for sure!"

And, as conclusion: "As he (OBL) was a product of the CIA."

***

Al Qaida, "the base" is the CIA name for all mudjahedeen fighters who were flown to Afghanistan, with the finacial and logistical help of saudi arabia, with cheap flight tickets to fight against the sowjet union, who met in Bin Ladens house in Peschawar.

And, to bring more surprise: Believe me or not, this term was never used before the year 1999 / 2000. Search for it, don't trust my research, I want to challenge you and your memory and the whole internet and I am ready to change my opinion on that, if you'll bring me evidence. :ph43r:


SittingBull - April 16, 2006 08:44 PM (GMT)
July 10, 2005 -- Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook: " Al Qaeda" was the name of a U.S. intelligence database -- Writing today in The Guardian, Cook revealed, " Al-Qaida [sic], literally 'the database,' was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians." The database was maintained by Bin Laden's Maktab al Khidimat (MAK) recruiting organization, which had its headquarters at the Bait al Ansar guest house in Peshawar, Pakistan and maintained offices in Detroit and Brooklyn in the 1980s. According to The Guardian, revelations by former MI5 officer David Shayler pointed to British MI-6 involvement with a Libyan-based Al Qaeda cell to plot the assassination of Col. Muammar Qaddafi from 1995 to 1996. Two MI-6 agents were identified, MI-6 hit team leader Richard Bartlett (Code name PT16) and David Watson (Code name PT16B), as well as a Libyan Al Qaeda liaison code named TUNWORTH and who may have been Anas al Liby, a top lieutenant to Osama Bin Laden and who was given political asylum in Britain until May 2000, when he escaped prior to a police raid in Manchester. In 1998, Qaddafi issued an international arrest warrant, via Interpol, for Bin Laden. Five months after Qaddafi issued his arrest warrant for Bin Laden, Al Qaeda (including al Liby) carried out the bombings of U.S. embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam.


***

Unfortunately, Robin Cook died 3 weeks after this statement because of a "stroke".

<_<

valis - April 17, 2006 02:29 AM (GMT)
Plucked from the database: 'Al-Qaeda' boogeymen all share a common past, hidden in plain sight

http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=18176

Robo - April 17, 2006 02:31 AM (GMT)
Interesting information SittingBull, it makes sense and doesn't suprise the in the least.

SittingBull - April 17, 2006 06:45 AM (GMT)
I guess the reason why Robin Cook had to die was this short hint:

The database was maintained by Bin Laden's Maktab al Khidimat (MAK) recruiting organization, which ... maintained offices in Detroit and Brooklyn in the 1980s


Brooklyn. The Brooklyn connection is a smoking gun, a direct trace to false flag operations!

http://s3.amazonaws.com/911timeline/1990s/...oice033093.html

http://www.physics911.ca/Schoenman:_Who_Bo...Trade_Center%3F

The other scenario looks like this: Informant Salem organized the bomb
plot with the "supervision" of the FBI and the District Attorney as part
of a classic entrapment setup. He befriended certain individuals,
possibly some of the defendants, convinced them that his intentions to
bomb the World Trade Center were sincere, and convinced them to get
involved. The bomb goes off. Greedy Salem, with his ears still ringing,
sells out his accomplices while attempting to sell more information to the
Bureau. In order to protect him and their relationship, the FBI
sequesters Salem and utilizes him against the real target of the FBI,
Sheik Rahman.

In one of the taped conversations between Salem and "Special Agent" John
Anticev, Salem refers to him and the Bureau's involvement in making the
bomb that blew up the World Trade Center. As Salem is pressing for money
while emphasizing his value as a Bureau asset, the conversation moves in
and out of references to the bombing and the FBI's knowledge of the bomb
making:

FBI: But ah basically nothing has changed. I'm just telling you for my
own sake that nothing, that this isn't a salary but you got paid regularly
for good information. I mean the expenses were a little bit out of the
ordinary and it was really questioned. Don't tell Nancy I told you
this. (Nancy Floyd is another FBI agent who worked with Salem in his
informant capacity. The second tape obtained by the SHADOW is of a
telephone conversation between Salem and Floyd -Ed.)

SALEM: Well, I have to tell her of course.

FBI: Well then, if you have to, you have to.

SALEM: Yeah, I mean because the lady was being honest and I was being
honest and everything was submitted with receipts and now it's
questionable.

FBI: It's not questionable, it's like a little out of the' ordinary.

SALEM: Okay. I don't think it was. If that what you think guys, fine,
but I don't think that because we was start already building the bomb
which is went off in the World Trade Center. It was built by supervising
supervision from the Bureau and the DA and we was all informed about it
and we know what the bomb start to be built. By who? By your
confidential informant. What a wonderful great case! And then he put his
head in the sand I said "Oh, no, no, that's not true, he is son of a
bitch." (Deep breath) Okay. It's built with a different way in another
place and that's it.

FBI: No, don't make any rash decisions. I'm just trying to be as honest
with you as I can.

SALEM: Of course, I appreciate that.

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur46.htm

The tapes are available on the net, I heard them once for real.

valis - April 17, 2006 03:23 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
Brooklyn. The Brooklyn connection is a smoking gun, a direct trace to false flag operations!

valis - April 17, 2006 06:47 PM (GMT)
Jose Padilla Investigation Started in 1993 With First WTC Attack, But Indictments Delayed a Decade
http://valis.gnn.tv/B14390

SittingBull - April 30, 2006 11:22 AM (GMT)
Bump for our newbies!

http://www.zaman.com/?bl=national&alt=&trh=20050815&hn=22982

"...Further more he argued that there is no Al Qaida. According to Kaynak, Al Qaida is the name of the operation carried out by an intelligence service, which is CIA…With this operation an anti-Islam front among the peoples of the world is tried to be created."...


http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2003-05-25-assad_x.htm

Syrian President Bashar Al-Assad
5/25/2003
Quote:
Assad doubts existence of al-Qaeda
KUWAIT CITY (AP) - Syrian President Bashar Assad said in an interview published Sunday that he doubts the existence of al-Qaeda, the terror group blamed for the Sept. 11 attacks and recent strikes in Saudi Arabia and Morocco.

"Is there really an entity called al-Qaeda? Was it in Afghanistan? Does it exist now?" Assad asked, according to the Kuwaiti newspaper Al-Anba.


http://www.zaman.com/?bl=national&alt=&trh=20050815&hn=22982

August 14, 2005
Quote:

«Countries facing the al-Qaeda threat are awaiting the intelligence Turkish security is to provide. Amid the smoke from the fortuitous fire emerged the possibility that al-Qaeda may not be, strictly speaking, an organization but an element of an intelligence agency operation.

Turkish intelligence specialists agree that there is no such organization as al-Qaeda.

Rather, Al-Qaeda is the name of a secret service operation. The concept “fighting terror” is the background of the “low-intensity-warfare” conducted in the mono-polar world order. The subject of this strategy of tension is named as “al-Qaeda.” »

Such speculation is popular among some in the Arab world who say Washington has manufactured or exaggerated the threat posed by al-Qaeda in order to paint Muslims as dangerous.

http://www.turkishweekly.net/comments.php?id=1604
2005-08-01
Quote:
There is no Terrorist Organization Called Al Qaida

…Nese Düzel from Radikal (a Turkish newspaper) asked this question and more on Al Qaida to Mahir Kaynak, a former academic and a former intelligence officer. He has suggested different and debateful views, which will be summarized in this article.


Further more he argued that there is no Al Qaida. According to Kaynak, Al Qaida is the name of the operation carried out by an intelligence service, which is CIA…With this operation an anti-Islam front among the peoples of the world is tried to be created.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/...1327904,00.html

Friday October 15, 2004
Quote:
The Power of Nightmares seeks to overturn much of what is widely believed about Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida.

The latter, it argues, is not an organised international network.

It does not have members or a leader.
It does not have "sleeper cells".
It does not have an overall strategy.
In fact, it barely exists at all, except as an idea about cleansing a corrupt world through religious violence.


Talibans
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2897137.stm
Quote:
According to Dadullah, al-Qaeda did
not exist in Afghanistan and he said he did not know
the fate or whereabouts of Osama bin-Laden.



http://english.pravda.ru/mailbox/22/101/39...21_AlQaeda.html

08/19/2004
Quote:

«Al Qaeda does not exist and never has»

«The basic truth is that Al Qaeda does not exist and never has. Al Qaeda is a manufactured enemy who was created by the Bush Administration in order to have an excuse to wage a war for the control of the world"s oil resources.

http://www.gsmpro.com/article/articledt.asp?hArticleId=39

Quote:
Bashir on Friday accused the United States of inventing both al-Qaida and Jemaah Islamiyah to portray Muslims as terrorists.


http://www.usefulwork.com/shark/qazi021013.html
Quote:
Qazi Hussain Ahmed :
«I've never been sure whether the so-called Al-Qaeda has ever even existed. »

Metropolitan Police Commissioner Ian Blair, London, United Kingdom

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,162476,00.html
Quote:

July 15, 2005

Commenting on the possible role of Al Qaeda, Blair said, " Al Qaeda is not an organization . Al Qaeda is a way of working ... but this has the hallmark of that approach."

This link needs registration to be followed:

http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/103002...021030082.shtml
October 29, 2002
Quote:
''Al-Qaida is not an organization anymore, it is
a concept,'' said Jordanian political analyst Labib Kamhawi.
''There is a lot of appeal for the concept itself.''»

«''On balance, I would be surprised if there wasn't any
foreign participation,'' he said. ''Al-Qaida does not have
membership cards, and as such, linkages can occur
on many different levels.''


I can add a testimony, shown in french filmmaker Mohammed Sifaoui 2003 film "On the trace of Osama Bin Laden" In it, a afghan clan leader says:

Quote:
"Al Qaida? What should that be- you can search for Al Qaida here, but you won't find it for sure!"

And, as conclusion of the movie:
"As he (OBL) was a product of the CIA."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/...1523838,00.html


SittingBull - April 30, 2006 11:29 AM (GMT)
We may add that both the London 7/7 bombing and the Madrid 3/13 bombing have no ties to Al Qaida, according to the final official reports, published the last two weeks.

Thus we have a problem: Both bombings following letters with the claim of responsibility of Al Qaida under-organisations.

My last information was that the web pages have ties to Tx, USA.

So, how strange was this? One can assume that if you follow the trace of the false responsibility claims you got the men behind the myth Al Qaida. What't the status of the official investigation in this?


SittingBull - May 7, 2006 07:51 PM (GMT)
A lot of stuff:

First WTC bombing:


The most important fact is that the 1993 bomb was actually built by Emad Salem, a former agent for an Egyptian army officer who had been an informant for the FBI. Salem was assigned to penetrate a supposed terrorist cell--and he proceeded to organize the plot himself.

The New York Times reported that, in transcripts of tapes of Salem’s conversations with FBI agents, the bureau dismissed his warnings that the bombing would take place. Afterward, federal authorities gave Salem $1 million for his testimony against others.

Another mystery in the bombing case is that the telephone number and apartment listed on the rental agreement for the van carrying the 1993 bomb were under the name of Josie Hadas, an agent of the Israeli secret service, the Mossad. An FBI spokesperson told the International Herald Tribune in 1993: "We have no idea whether Hadas is a member of the Israeli Mossad, but even if it were true, we wouldn’t tell you."


http://www.socialistworker.org/2001/378/37...oJudgment.shtml


***

International Herald Tribune, 3/8/1993: „What has emerged, is that the telephone number and apartment listed on the rental agreement for the van carrying the explosives belonged to Guzie Hadas - long established as a Mossad operative."



***

According to one source this terrorist attack was initiated by a Josie - or Guzie - Hadas, an Islamist, who, according to the International Herald Tribune, was "long established as a Mossad operative." 1 She had hired 2 Arabs, who were later arrested, Mohammed Salameh, a Palestinian, and Nidal Ayyad.

Salameh was Hadas' driver. In this function he was directed by Hadas to rent a transport van. Salameh rented the van in his own name. The telephone number and apartment listed on the rental contract were those belonging to Hadas.

The man who proposed the bombing to followers of Sheikh Omar Abdul Rahman (an Egyptian dissident) was Emad Ali Salem "a high level double agent working for Egyptian intelligence and an FBI informant/provocateur. It was Salem, who provided the FBI with taped conversations and all other evidence for the trial. It was Salem who had the idea and drew up the plans to blow up the Lincoln and Holland tunnels, the United Nations and other targets and also commit assassinations.

The FBI/Egyptian intelligence agent "provided the safe houses in which the bombs were manufactured, helped purchase the firearms and materials to be used in the attacks." 2

Shortly after Salameh rented the vehicle, the van disappeared. Salameh reported the "theft" immediately to the police, no reaction. He reported the "theft" a second time. When the police also refused to record the theft, he went to the police station to personally ask that the theft be recorded. He was outraged that the police officers - using "formal grounds" - still refused to make a record of the theft.

The bomb exploded the next day. Pieces of the van were discovered in the rubble. The day following the explosion, Salameh returned to the rental office to ask to have his deposit returned. He received a portion and was arrested a couple hours later.

The FBI found "tools and wiring, and manuals concerning antennae, circuitry and electromagnetic devices" 3 during their search of Hadas' apartment. "One expert interpreted these as evidence that a 'bombmaker' had been in the apartment - the more so because 'a dog trained in the detection of explosives' sniffed around and 'responded positively.'" Yet Josie Hadas was never brought to trial. Where she is today is not known. It seems not to have even interested the Judge.

Time Magazine remarked: "If Salameh is guilty, it still must be determined how to account for what looked like his extraordinary stupidity in renting a van under his own name, presenting a valid New York driver's license with a real and traceable phone number and, instead of disappearing after the bombing, calling attention to himself by repeatedly trying to recover the deposit."

The FBI had had all documents relating to plans to blow up the World Trade Center, the Lincoln and Holland Tunnels and other targets in their possession since 1990. Fifty storage boxes of documents concerning detailed plans to blow up the World Trade Center were in police and FBI possession, as Los Angeles Times confirmed July 4, 1993. Every time Salem met with his stooges to discuss these operations, he was "wired" and the FBI was fully aware that the actions were Salem's idea.



http://911review.org/Wiki/FirstWTCBombing.shtml

***

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/adam.htm

***


Dancing israelis:


Israelis detained for `puzzling behavior' after WTC tragedy
Five Israelis who had worked for a moving company based in New Jersey are being held in U.S. prisons for what the Federal Bureau of Investigation has described as "puzzling behavior" following the terror attack on the World Trade Center in New York last Tuesday.[...] They are said to have had been caught videotaping the disaster and shouting in what was interpreted as cries of joy and mockery.Ha'Aretz, September 17, 2001

Five Men Detained As Suspected Conspirators
Eight hours after terrorists struck Manhattan's tallest skyscrapers, police in Bergen County detained five men who they said were found carrying maps linking them to the blasts. The five men, who were in a van stopped on Route 3 in East Rutherford around 4:30 p.m., were being questioned by police but had not been charged with any crime late Tuesday.

However, sources close to the investigation said they found other evidence linking the men to the bombing plot. "There are maps of the city in the car with certain places highlighted," the source said. "It looked like they're hooked in with this. It looked like they knew what was going to happen when they were at Liberty State Park."

Sources also said that bomb-sniffing dogs reacted as if they had detected explosives. The FBI seized the van for further testing, authorities said. Bergen Record, September 12, 2001 (copy)


The White Van
Said one of the men, denying that they were laughing or happy on the morning of Sept. 11, "The fact of the matter is we are coming from a country that experiences terror daily. Our purpose was to document the event." ABC June 21, 2002

Spies, or students?
Were the Israelis just trying to sell their paintings, or agents in a massive espionage ring? Ha'Aretz, May 14, 2002

Suspicious Activities Involving Israeli Art Students at DEA Facilities
Drug Enforcement Administration Office of Security, June, 2001
In January, 2001, the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), Office of Security Programs (IS), began to receive reports of Israeli art students attempting to penetrate several DEA Field Offices in the continental United States. Additionally, there have been reports of Israeli art students visiting the homes of numerous DEA employees. These incidents have occurred since at least the beginning of 2000, and have continued to the present DEA

Spy Rumors Fly on Gusts of Truth
Americans Probing Reports of Israeli Espionage
Despite angry denials by Israel and its American supporters, reports that Israel was conducting spying activities in the United States may have a grain of truth, the Forward has learned.[...]

According to one former high-ranking American intelligence official, who asked not to be named, the FBI came to the conclusion at the end of its investigation that the five Israelis arrested in New Jersey last September (Sivan and Paul Kurzberg, Oded Ellner, Omer Marmari and Yaron Shmuel) were conducting a Mossad surveillance mission and that their employer, Urban Moving Systems of Weehawken, N.J., served as a front.[...]

In addition to their strange behavior and their Middle Eastern looks, the suspicions were compounded when a box cutter and $4,000 in cash were found in the van. Moreover, one man carried two passports and another had fresh pictures of the men standing with the smoldering wreckage of the World Trade Center in the background.[...]

On December 7, a New Jersey judge ruled that the state could seize the goods remaining inside the warehouse. The state also has a lawsuit pending against Urban Moving Systems and its owner, Dominik Otto Suter, an Israeli citizen. The FBI questioned Mr. Suter once. However, he left the country afterward and went back to Israel before further questioning. Mr. Suter declined through his lawyer to be interviewed for this article.[...] Charlene Eban, a spokeswoman for the FBI in Washington, and Don Nelson, a Justice Department spokesman, said they had no knowledge of an Israeli spying operation.

"If we found evidence of unauthorized intelligence operations, that would be classified material," added Jim Margolin, a spokesman for the FBI in New York. Forward, February, 2002

http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2002/12/1551096.php

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/ca/press/storage.htm

http://ww1.sundayherald.com/37707

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fiveisraelis.html

Large FBI list of terror suspects pdf with Suter on it: http://www.antiwar.com/justin/CI-08-02.pdf

peteLI - May 13, 2006 06:17 AM (GMT)
i've heard a lot of people talking about how al qaeda isn't an actual organization, but more of a state of mind, and that the idea of a group called "al qaeda" carrying out terrorist attacks is totally farfetched.

i'd like to see some sources/research, as i'm yet to find anything about it

Sun Zoo - May 13, 2006 06:19 AM (GMT)
I spent countless hours uploading "The Power of Nightmares" BBC Documentary series to Google Video, and twice, "they've" taken it down off Google Video.

Find and watch that, for starters. It's fantastic, from that perspective.

Sun Zoo - May 13, 2006 06:22 AM (GMT)
It's true. There is no REAL "al Qaeda" ("the base").

It's a total lie.

Not the way they would have us understand it.

There's no network, just a few terrorist organizations, like there always were. Hezbolla, and the like, you know.

Unbelievable what they tried to do.

Too bad they never factored in, the Internet.

:lol:

Now we all know, and the rest of us are finding out.

History is looking dicey eh?

Not for much longer hopefully..

I don't want to be like Winston, from 1984. :(

Strange, eh? when you really stop to think about it - TWO histories?!!

We are winning though..

chucksheen - May 13, 2006 06:24 AM (GMT)
Hey find me the video or upload it to www.vSocial.com or www.YouTube.com please. CIA=Al-Queda. It's true. Few sources:

www.alCIAda.net
http://www.infowars.com/articles/London_at...da_cia_ties.htm

Robo - May 13, 2006 06:33 AM (GMT)
From everything that I've read I highly doubt there is an actual, organized international Al-Qaeda led by Osama Bin Laden. In any case their handlers are CIA assets. There is an Osama Bin Laden (possibly dead) and there are Islamic terrorists who do hate America and would volunteer for suicide bombings, but they have never carried out attacks in this country without the aid and direction of the CIA. The CIA was also involved in other "Al Qaeda" incidents, probably the Yemen incident (there should have been no ship refueling in Yemen in the first place as they are refueld at sea), probably all of them. OKC was an inside job. The "War On Terror" is not the way to address the terrorists that do exist...that war is about expanding the empire not defeating some formidable Al-Qaeda. Our borders are open, Osama Bin Laden is not captured, new nations are occupied...figure it out.

Smeegen - May 13, 2006 01:24 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Sun Zoo @ May 13 2006, 06:22 AM)
It's true. There is no REAL "al Qaeda" ("the base").

It's a total lie.

Not the way they would have us understand it.

Well, that's half true as you would know if you saw the documentary in question, as I have done.

Al Qaeda was very real, but most of it's members died in Afghanistan, or were subsequently rounded up or killed.

The Iraqis calling themselves Al Qaeda, like the UK rail bombers, have no known links to the original Al Qaeda that I'm aware of. They just like the idea of Al Qaeda, as do many other radical Islamic people around the world.

Similarly the Bush/Blair/Howard axis dearly love to play on fear of the Al Qaeda boogyman.

There are probably and handful at most of Old School Al Qaeda at large in the world. The only real terrorist threats now are random yahoos deciding to emulate them by blowing stuff up, as happened in London. That's a serious concern, but not one worth flushing civil liberties down the toilet over.

Robo, if you have any actual evidence of CIA involvement in terrorist attacks on US targets, including OKC, kindly forward it to a reputable journalist. Otherwise people will write you off as a raving kook.

GrimHardaway - May 13, 2006 01:38 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Robo @ May 13 2006, 06:33 AM)
From everything that I've read I highly doubt there is an actual, organized international Al-Qaeda led by Osama Bin Laden. In any case their handlers are CIA assets. There is an Osama Bin Laden (possibly dead) and there are Islamic terrorists who do hate America and would volunteer for suicide bombings, but they have never carried out attacks in this country without the aid and direction of the CIA. The CIA was also involved in other "Al Qaeda" incidents, probably the Yemen incident (there should have been no ship refueling in Yemen in the first place as they are refueld at sea), probably all of them. OKC was an inside job. The "War On Terror" is not the way to address the terrorists that do exist...that war is about expanding the empire not defeating some formidable Al-Qaeda. Our borders are open, Osama Bin Laden is not captured, new nations are occupied...figure it out.

Exactly. Can we see the confiscated videos from OKC? And not some Zapruder crap or 5 frame BS.

karim - May 13, 2006 01:49 PM (GMT)
With "BBC 4 the power of nightmares" I recommend "BBC 2 the new al-Qaida". Just to get a second opinion.


Gravy's "Loose Change" Viewer's Guide: http://tinyurl.com/jnfp8 (.html) / http://tinyurl.com/epp82 (.doc)

NickJ123 - May 13, 2006 01:57 PM (GMT)

FM258 - May 13, 2006 02:12 PM (GMT)
Al Qaida is a boogeyman that we (USG, not me personally) will use to justify any and all offensive military operations.

They are NOT some army of terrorists! But it has been brainwashed into the mainstream that they are.


Agent Orange - May 13, 2006 02:52 PM (GMT)
Find and watch-

The Power of Nightmares - Part III

The Shadows In The Cave

The Power of Nightmares assesses whether the threat from a hidden and organised terrorist network is an illusion. In the concluding part of the series, the programme explains how the illusion was created and who benefits from it.


MUST SEE...absolutely MUST see.

Pasqualle - May 13, 2006 03:05 PM (GMT)
"Terrorism," under the guise of CIA operative Al-Queda, is really just a new Cold War to boost our defense spending, take away liberties, and expand the American Empire.

roger - May 13, 2006 08:04 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (peteLI @ May 13 2006, 06:17 AM)
i've heard a lot of people talking about how al qaeda isn't an actual organization, but more of a state of mind, and that the idea of a group called "al qaeda" carrying out terrorist attacks is totally farfetched.

i'd like to see some sources/research, as i'm yet to find anything about it

The term "AL Qaeda" is arabic for "The Base".

"The Base" is shortened from "The Database". The Database specifically was a list OBL kept on his hard drive which held the names and contact information of a network of jihadists and financiers whoi were willing and able to support the operations against the Russians during the Afghan conflict. Thus, The Base was literally a database of jihadists working in conjunction with the US to terrorize occupation forces in Afghanistan.

The funding for these Freedom Fighters (as Ronald Reagan declared them when he announced "Afghanistan Day in 1983) came from The CIA and Saudi Arabia.

For a little lesson in spin-

http://www.yirmeyahureview.com/archive/afg...anistan_day.htm


FinalStrike - May 13, 2006 08:23 PM (GMT)
CIA has black ops- just like al quieda is black ops.

I.E they dont exist unless they tell you.



so al quieda magically appear- when they pull off the most successful attack in history on a super power.

TheQuest - May 13, 2006 08:27 PM (GMT)
smeegen,

This is the absolute last warning.

You are a guest and you've been asked to confine your commentary to the "Skeptics" forum. I suspect your motives but you can stay as long as you abide by the rules.

If I see you out here in the regular forums again you will be banned permanently.

Heed my warning.


Ijon Tichy - May 13, 2006 08:58 PM (GMT)
This is from a transcript of "Power of Nightmares":

VO: In January, 2001, a trial began in a Manhattan courtroom of four men accused of the embassy bombings in east Africa. But the Americans had also decided to prosecute bin Laden in his absence. But to do this under American law, the prosecutors needed evidence of a criminal organisation because, as with the Mafia, that would allow them to prosecute the head of the organisation even if he could not be linked directly to the crime. And the evidence for that organisation was provided for them by an ex-associate of bin Laden’s called Jamal al-Fadl.

JASON BURKE , AUTHOR, “AL QAEDA” : During the investigation of the 1998 bombings, there is a walk-in source, Jamal al-Fadl, who is a Sudanese militant who was with bin Laden in the early 90s, who has been passed around a whole series of Middle East secret services, none of whom want much to do with him, and who ends up in America and is taken on by—uh—the American government, effectively, as a key prosecution witness and is given a huge amount of American taxpayers’ money at the same time. And his account is used as raw material to build up a picture of Al Qaeda. The picture that the FBI want to build up is one that will fit the existing laws that they will have to use to prosecute those responsible for the bombing. Now, those laws were drawn up to counteract organised crime: the Mafia, drugs crime, crimes where people being a member of an organisation is extremely important. You have to have an organisation to get a prosecution. And you have al-Fadl and a number of other witness, a number of other sources, who are happy to feed into this. You’ve got material that, looked at in a certain way, can be seen to show this organisation’s existence. You put the two together and you get what is the first bin Laden myth—the first Al Qaeda myth. And because it’s one of the first, it’s extremely influential.

VO: The picture al-Fadl drew for the Americans of bin Laden was of an all-powerful figure at the head of a large terrorist network that had an organised network of control. He also said that bin Laden had given this network a name: “Al Qaeda.” It was a dramatic and powerful picture of bin Laden, but it bore little relationship to the truth.

[ EXCERPT, CNN EXCLUSIVE VIDEO : BIN LADEN AND SOLDIERS ]

VO: The reality was that bin Laden and Ayman Zawahiri had become the focus of a loose association of disillusioned Islamist militants who were attracted by the new strategy. But there was no organisation. These were militants who mostly planned their own operations and looked to bin Laden for funding and assistance. He was not their commander. There is also no evidence that bin Laden used the term “Al Qaeda” to refer to the name of a group until after September the 11th, when he realized that this was the term the Americans have given it.

[ CUT TO MANHATTAN SKYLINE ]

VO: In reality, Jamal al-Fadl was on the run from bin Laden, having stolen money from him. In return for his evidence, the Americans gave him witness protection in America and hundreds of thousands of dollars. Many lawyers at the trial believed that al-Fadl exaggerated and lied to give the Americans the picture of a terrorist organisation that they needed to prosecute bin Laden.

SAM SCHMIDT , DEFENCE LAWYER EMBASSY BOMBINGS TRIAL: And there were selective portions of al-Fadl’s testimony that I believe was false, to help support the picture that he helped the Americans join together. I think he lied in a number of specific testimony about a unified image of what this organisation was. It made Al Qaeda the new Mafia or the new Communists. It made them identifiable as a group and therefore made it easier to prosecute any person associated with Al Qaeda for any acts or statements made by bin Laden—who talked a lot.

BURKE : The idea—which is critical to the FBI’s prosecution—that bin Laden ran a coherent organisation with operatives and cells all around the world of which you could be a member is a myth. There is no Al Qaeda organisation. There is no international network with a leader, with cadres who will unquestioningly obey orders, with tentacles that stretch out to sleeper cells in America, in Africa, in Europe. That idea of a coherent, structured terrorist network with an organised capability simply does not exist.

VO: What did exist was a powerful idea that was about to inspire a single, devastating act that would lead the whole world into believing the myth that had begun to be constructed in the Manhattan courtroom.

Robo - May 14, 2006 06:11 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (GrimHardaway @ May 13 2006, 01:38 PM)
Exactly. Can we see the confiscated videos from OKC? And not some Zapruder crap or 5 frame BS.

nesNYC - May 29, 2006 06:40 AM (GMT)
I always thought there was something really fishy about the whole "Al Qaeda" story since these guys just sort of appeared on the world stage all of a sudden. But I took the Government's lie at face value and didn't think much of it for a while even after 9/11 happened. But doing some research, I found a great piece about "Al Qaeda" or "The Database" that opened my eyes really wide. But THEN just a few weeks back, I stumbled on this 3 part series that aired on BBC called "The Power of Nightmares." In it, they specifically cite the instance that "Al Qaeda" was created or given its name and Osama had nothing to do with it.

The fact is that after the '98 embassy bombings, those suspected of pulling it off were extradited to New York and a trial ensued. However, in order to try Osama in absentia he needed to be implicated with a criminal organization. BINGO! "Al Qaeda" was born when an "informant" was paid $100,000 to testify that indeed there was an organization called "Al Qaeda" and Osama was the leader. However, the same witness later bragged that he made the whole story up just to get the generous payout the FBI offered and to go on the witness protection program because he actually stole money from Bin Laden.

Anyone who really wants to understand how the pasties for 9/11 were crated and then implicated needs to see this 3 part series. Keep in mind, the documentary assumes the 19 hijackers did indeed attack us on 9/11 however; the door is left open to logically deduce that the Neocons were actually the master minds behind the whole thing because they took the lie, ran with it and got their trillion dollar wars. Check it out:

Right Click and Save As... (3 hours long, about 35MB's each)
Baby it's Cold Outside
The Phantom Victory
The Shadows in the Cave

Pasqualle - May 29, 2006 03:34 PM (GMT)
Great post nesNYC.

The CIA poured between 6 and 20 billion dollars into Al Qaeda back in the 1980s to fight the Soviet Union during its invasion of Afghanistan. This actually worked; the Soviet Union backed off in 1989 and collapsed completely two years later. But the CIA knew just how useful their new freedom fighters could be, and rather than break off ties with them they continued to utilize them throughout the 1990s, in places such as Bosnia in 1994, Kosovo in 1998, and Macedonia in 1999.

Where do the embassy bombings fit in with this?

As you said, Al Qaeda was blamed for the attacks (despite no record of previous anti-US policies or behavior). After seeing how great an "enemy" they were, the powers that be decided to create a new war to boost defense spending and reestablish the heroin trade in Afghanistan (a gigantic chunk of corporate America's capital). They then used al Qaeda and soon the "terrorists" as an excuse to accomplish their geopolitical and economic goals.

Pasqualle

jenabell - May 29, 2006 04:01 PM (GMT)
Thanks for the videos!

I am watching them now, looks good. [cheers]

LondonEye - May 29, 2006 04:21 PM (GMT)
Hi All

Re : The Powers of Nightmares

You can also watch them on Google Video...

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=power+of+nightmares

and for DVD quality (1GB download each part, three in total)...

http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares

The bits that stick out for me was Rumsfeld when talking about the Soviet threat, sounded just like he did with the "super al-cia-da underground bunkers" under the Tora-Bora mountain range [crylol]

Talk about change the record, already !!!

With Perle and Wolfowitz sounding just like they do now !!!

All the best

LondonEye
[thumbsup]

SittingBull - May 29, 2006 04:48 PM (GMT)

LondonEye - May 29, 2006 04:51 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (SittingBull @ May 29 2006, 04:48 PM)
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...wtopic=2355&hl=

Thanks SittingBull - Threads Merged !!! [salute]

All the best

LondonEye
[thumbsup]

nesNYC - May 29, 2006 05:24 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (LondonEye @ May 29 2006, 04:21 PM)
Hi All

Re : The Powers of Nightmares

You can also watch them on Google Video...

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=power+of+nightmares

and for DVD quality (1GB download each part, three in total)...

http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares

The bits that stick out for me was Rumsfeld when talking about the Soviet threat, sounded just like he did with the "super al-cia-da underground bunkers" under the Tora-Bora mountain range [crylol]

Talk about change the record, already !!!

With Perle and Wolfowitz sounding just like they do now !!!

All the best

LondonEye
[thumbsup]

Thank you for the links! :D

The_weez - May 31, 2006 08:38 PM (GMT)
Howdy!
I've been stalkin the LC site for a while now, big fan of the movie since about the time it hit #1 on Google. As a native lon gilander I was extremely impressed and moved by the information presented in the film.

One piece that really caught my interest was the fact that CIA members met with Bin Laden a few months preceding 9/11... while he was on the world's most wanted list! [serious]

Now we all know Bush without a doubt had knowledge of a supposed attack. Is Loose Change suggesting that when the Bush administration discovered this, they decided to collaborate with Al Qaeda, let them hit the buildings via american airlines, and then themselves proceded to detonate the buildings with WTC 7 as their base?
I think we all know that the official story is B.S., and I'm just curious as to what you all think about the planning of that day.. particularly Al Qaeda's involvement.

Matrix91101 - May 31, 2006 08:48 PM (GMT)
I think Al-Qada are some super heros who run around the "free world" being able to DEFEAT some of the biggest militaries in history "catching them offguard" USA, London, Spain, Scottland. I believe they are responsible for some of the largest military attacks in Al Khobar, maybe even the USS Cole .... they have never been afraid to admit anything why would they stop with the atacks on 9-11....not take credit for teh largest scale attack in US history, something sounds fishy?...Attacks on Towers, Pentagon and Trains, I think that takes only the inner workings of our own global elite

Have you seen this?
I guess we can scratch off Scottland.
http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1855852005

Terrorcell - May 31, 2006 08:50 PM (GMT)
I can speak only for myself of course and my opinion is that of mine and not theirs, but Usama bin Laden, (aka Tim Osman) a known CIA Black Op since before the mid 80's , seemed to have the roll of manning the plane, i.e. finding the martyr's to be the patsy's.

valis - May 31, 2006 11:15 PM (GMT)
Actually, the job of moneyman and patsy coordinator appeared to have belonged to Triple Agent (ISI, American, and British Intelligence) Saeed Sheikh .

http://valis.gnn.tv/B14033

Pasqualle - May 31, 2006 11:33 PM (GMT)
Al Qaeda was INVENTED by the United States through the CIA.

Pasqualle

Matrix91101 - May 31, 2006 11:35 PM (GMT)
I hope when all this is hindsight that they throw out all of the history books between 1940 and 2006. SO much information has been lost with these people.




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