I've always thought the ears/horns on a World Eater's helmet was based off from Aztecs, and would therefore have come after their "fall" to khorne, but in Visions of Treachery, Kharn is shown with the horns on his helmet.

Can anyone tell me what they signify, whether they were used before the heresy or not, and if so, by whom?

I always thought they were a post-Heresy invention, to make the Berzerkers' heads more resemble Khorne's symbol. I don't know the picture you refer to offhand but none of the novels have mentioned the funny 'ears', and most of the pictures don't have them.

That does make a lot of sense. I was refering to the picture here and on page 28 of the Visions of Treachery art book.


But yeah, your idea does make a ton of sense, I can't believe I had never thought of that.

It's possible they are a Pre-heresy world eater thing if Kharn has em,it would
explain much,I don't see why you couldn't.It may not show them in the Artbook but that doesn't mean they don't havem in tnovel's just because they don't mention em. :)

It does show them in the art, or at least the only picture I have found of kharn, but I do not like them. I'm thinking of just not using them.

Hey guys! Just passing through reading some posts and thought I would help with this one..

Many of the artwork of traitor forces in the HH artbooks portrays them towards the end of the heresy.. so during the assault on earth, or emerging through the break in the Emporer's webway. I think many of the traitor forces had made their alliegances obvious by this point - Nurgles transformation in the warp, the Word Bearer's repainting their armour, and the Emporer's Children's own modifications to themselves for instance.

So, its reasonable to assume that the World Eaters had gone through a similar process, and of course on his way to becoming an avatar of Khorne you would have to expect Kharn to be foremost amongst these!

In modelling terms, I think if you were to make a pre-heresy World Eater force depicted during the assault on the Emporer's palace then it would be reasonable to have them looking more like 40k beserkers and a lot less like the loyalists in uniform armour patterns.

Well I personally believe that the World Eaters did use these types of helmets (amongst others) during the Pre-Heresy Period. However I believe that they would have only started using the helmets with 'ears' after the Legion was reunited with its Primarch...

The background of Angron is based upon that of Spartacus and the resultant Third Serville War (73-71 B.C.) which ensued from his rebellion. The two stories therefore have a huge amount of parallels.

We know that Angron himself wears archaic gladiatorial armour in battle and it is reasonable to assume that his past gladiatorial experiences and perceptions had a vast impact upon shaping the characteristics of the World Eaters-their predeliction for close combat, their code of honour, the pre-battle blood rites etc.

I believe that this would have also extended to the forms of helmet worn by the World Eaters as well as the forms of armour they employed.

Historical Roman Gladiators had their own distinctive classes and types-some based upon defeated enemies that the Romans had beaten in the Italian Wars (such as the Samnite), in foreign Wars (Thraex or Thracian); others were based on aspects of mythology (Myrmillo and Retiarius).

These classes dictated not only the weapons that were utilised and the manner of training; but most importantly for this debate they dictated the shape and form of helmet that was worn. Many of these helmets (though not all) have large metal crests which extend far above the helmet itself (they were often decorated with feathers or horsehair crests). They served to be visually imposing (intimidating the enemy) and also allowed relatively easy recognition by the audience of individual warriors.

I believe that the 'ears' seen on World Eaters represent a copy of a form of gladiatorial helmet; which was used on Angron's homeworld. It ties in with the gladiatorial background of Angron and those of the Romans on whom he and the World Eaters to some extent are based.

...and that being a most imaginative and interesting interpretation, I think we have a winner! :)

i would say that the ears changed shape a bit to look like the mark of khorne but the would have had some crest like thing
as stated before it would make them look even bigger and intimidating(not the a world eater isent allready :lol: )

Kharn is the only example we have of PH bunny ears in canonical artwork, although the cover of Tales of Heresy shows red WE with the new style ears too, presumably setting it post-Istvaan?

Maybe Kharn's helmet was artificed, and it caught on amongst his brethren?

I came back to this thread to ask about that....


And I'm going to try to convert him tomorrow, so I'm not sure if I should give them to him.


It did say that all of the Captains in the Luna Wolves had crested helmets, so maybe it started off with just captains? It also shows him as a blue grey color, not World Eater colors, should I paint him as such?

There is a strict hierarchy of canonicity, where the letter of the 40k rules are not clear:

Always go by descriptions in the HH books first, then artwork second. Game stats from the CCG and boardgame come dead last.

Without the relevant novels to hand, I can't comment on Kharn's appearance with any authority. I'd say that the CCG artwork of him is pretty spanking stuff, and the silver-grey makes a nice change from WE schemes but also from Kharn's M41 colours.

Sorry for the necro. Just a thought to add (although this has been discussed excesivly now): I also think that they existed pre-heresy/pre-khorne (Vespasian's interpretation). But if you compare bunnyeared Khârn (see my sig) with the post-heresy model, they seem much more spiky, edgy, bigger, with a trim and rivets, etc.
Taking him as an example, and considering the fact that the Khorne Berzerkers' "ears" kinda resemble the upper end of the Khorne symbol, I've come to my personal conclusion how to handle the issue.

1. They existed pre-heresy, but without being influenced by Khorne at all. Note that (as it seems, contrary to some other people's opinions) I consider "PH" to be "pre-chaos-influence-or-any-betrayal", so I consider events like the assault on the imperial palace as "Heresy", already- a different period of style in my book, an intermediate step between pre-heresy and post-heresy look and feel.

2. They were not too common and mainly found among those closely following Angrons gladiatorial ways. This is not really proven, but just an assumption I make, to cope with their absence in the artwork except for one piece. But it makes sense for me, if you consider that crests and other helmet accessory were historically used to invoke fear in your enemies by making yourself appear larger then you are. (from a psychologic, instinctive viewpoint.) If Khârn, being the very successful, ruthless and bloodthirsty example of a WE he was, wore them, others would have too- mainly those who sought the direct, brutal confrontation on the battlefield. Additionally, applying this kind of crests may have been a symbol of those who recieved neural implants, because both of these aspects might reflect their primarch's transformation into a gladiator on his home world.

3. They looked different then the current post-heresy "ears". Again, this is an assumption based on one single picture, but it comes very handy. I like the thought that they just modified them to sesemble the Khorne symbol post- or mid-heresy. Additionally, modeling-wise, modifying them by filing off the trims, rivets, and the horizontal ends which point away from the had on their very top (to kill any resemblence of the Khorne stuff), maybe even cutting them a bit smaller to tone it down, makes them look less "lazy". It points out that you didn't just leave them to get the job done easier, but you put some thought in it, and it functions as an hommage to the Kharn artwork. A win-win in my book.

Applying this, I'm gonna leave the ears on my elite CC infantry (berzerkerlike elite warriors with two-handed axes and clearly added neural implants, Vanguard Veteran count-as), but modify them as mentioned above.

Cheers,
Ith

I would like to add that all I can say is that in the far future they must have some really bloody big doors, and must have a nightmare anytime they are in a room with a ceiling!

Not to mention that having giant things attached to ones helmet is exactly the most sensible of strategies - trying to hide behind a wall or in a ditch, they may as well have a massive red arrow pointed at their heads saying 'shoot here!' Also, can you imagine the weight of the things when trying to move your head quickly, duck under that decapatating blow or run out of a vehicle quickly without closelining yourself for example (assuming they are not made from balsa wood?)

But then, when has any kind of real life practical consideration ever mattered? :lol:

(and in my opinion.. I'm sorry but whatever reason you give for it, these guys just look ridiculous and have the aesthetic appeal of a morris minor! and that goes for not only Khorne, but TS marines, night lords, anyone who have fallen victim to the GW 'only way we can make these guys disinctively chaos is to have giant themed appendages attached to their heads'

I will admit that the picture of Kharn in Collected Visions is the exception, that looks cool :) )

I allow myself to disregard basically everything you said, as they can be either answered by "power armour!" or "they don't freaking care, they are berzerkers!"... :P

Considering the "artistic appeal" factor, it's a matter of taste, and maybe I've just gotten used to these designs, and that's because I'm okay with them.

Finally, seems like we're on the same line, anyway. I dig the PH bunny year Kharn's version more, too, and will make mine similar, so there's not even an argument, here.

Well, its your army, and judging from the stuff you have done so far I'm sure you will make it look effective!

I think I'm still shaken from making a Night Lords army years ago and getting looks of misconprehension for removing the batman ears from my marines. which IMO are right up there with Nagash, comedy lord of the undead, the ogre cheerleader and invivisible frodo as GW's crappest sculpts.

I think the elite infantry option would be cool, especially as Kharn had them pre heresy.

i dont have the book on hand but they do talk about him in the third book (the virus bomb one)
cant remeber much but they do talk about hwo he looks along with some other captains and such

also i think the night lord bat man wings look stupid
i think skulls would look better all the way

The enemy were out there somewhere, he knew it. "Gunnery sergeant, any sight of the enemy?" Said Major Tom. "Nope sorry sir they're clearly using those ruins ahead for cover, cant get a bead on them sir!"
"Ah! Wait a moment sir!" said the Gunnery Sergeant. "There, I can see what looks to be a giant pair of wings bobbing along behind that crater!"
"Excellent! Good work Gunnery Sergeant, aim for those wings! Range 100m. No wind. Fire!"
The guns fired, followed by an explosion.
"Great! Target destroyed! Thank goodness those marines wear those helmets!" said Major Tom, before brushing some dust from his lapel.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Drax the Despoiler was a vision of hell. Clad head to toe in deep red armour, brass ornamental skulls and the skinned and melted faces of foes who had dared to cross him. In his hand he carried a giant chain axe, the size of a small child, its metal surface covered in gore. His other hand carried an ornamental plasma pistol, forged when the Emporer himself bestrode the galaxy. For ten thousand years Drax had fought the lackies of the Emporer, killing them without mercy and taking their skulls as offerings for the Blood Throne. Entire worlds had fallen before him.

This was the site witnessed by Dave the guardsman as he entered the room. Doing what any rational minded person would do when confronted with such a horror, dave dropped his lasgun, turned on the spot and ran.

With a howl of anger, Drax gave chase and ran after dave across the room. However, as he ran out of the door, he forgot that his helmet had giant appendages which caught on the door frame wrenching his head backwards, breaking his neck and killing him instantly.

Wow. Considering your strong emotions towards some simple bunny ears / demon wings, you must really hate backpack banner poles to death. ;)

Ah come on Ithmaril, you must have smiled a little bit when you read those? :D

(And banner poles are meant to be retractable I thought?)

i know this is kind of thread necro but i ahve something super interesting to say
on the cover of TOH if you look at the World Eater in the bottom right corner next to Angron he is wearing the little bunny ear things

Yeah, this was discussed a while back... IIRC correctly at the time we decided the artwork is from the Siege of Terra, since it shows Angron and his legion assaulting an Imperial city.

Watch the next BLTV for an interview with Neil Roberts on this very piece of artwork... ;)

We have been lead to beleive that the fate of terra hung on a knifes edge.. that the palace was on the verge of falling.

So what was the difference between loyalist and usurper that meant the Heresy failed? One side had great appendages attached to their heads that made them a massive target, meant they were vulnerable to head shots, and that they couldnt actually get in through the door into the palace.

Plus the EC were too busy humping everything...

For what it's worth, I went with the bunny ears when I converted up a Kharn last year:





And since I had an extra Kharn mini, I used it for a PH World Eaters Sergeant, too.
(I can't find the pics right now, though. Bummer)

Anyway, great thread, great site!

-Tom

Welcome to the site Tom!

Its such a shame that you are instantly my sworn enemy for adding horns to Kharn (only jokin! ;) )

I read an interview with D. Abnett *cough* that said regarding the final version of the battle outside the emporer's palace, Kharn would have prevailed but he clothes-lines himself running out of a Rhino and knocks himself out, and then gets violated by an EC (this creates the bitter emnity between the WE/EC, all because of helmet appendages)

Great work though, do you have any intent to build up some more WE? :)

Actually, yes. I have a whole squad of PH World Eaters with jump-packs, led by the Sgt I mentioned.

Is it appropriate to post them to this thread (they don't have the "ears", apart from the Sgt) or should I go over to another part of the forums?

Oh, and I also have my PH Land Raider half painted.

Thanks.

-Tom

You should start a thread elsewhere - this section is really just for asking and answering questions, i.e. in this case whether the WE had bunny ears or not.

I would suggest either the World Eaters section in the Imperial Forces section, or starting a blog thread for yourself? I look forward to seeing them though! :)