Hey guys

According to Collected Visions book 4 and the Heresy CCG, Valkyries are utilised by the Death Guard. It is also reasonable to assume that if one Legion used them, then they all did.

Certainly their is a president for an Astartes Legion to use equipment which would later become the sole preserve of the Imperial Guard; the Baneblade and some artillery units are evidence of the larger role of marines as part of the Great Crusade. One can also imagine that actual use for a light VTOL unit instead of the Stormbird or Thunderhawk- perhaps carrying a recon unit, or as a personal transport, maybe even as a reserve transport unit as part of an expidition which has had its other more powerful air units incapacitated.

But, there are also some arguments against it - purely in practical terms, a marine player who tries to field a Valkyrie in some form is likely to get scorn from an opponent who thinks they are just trying to 'use all the new toys'. Not to mention that, in background terms, there is little to support the use of the vehicle other than a single card graphic - and this is the same CCG which although massively influential also gave us purple ultramarines and giant rhinos crammed full of space wolves (or tiny space wolves?). And, is it possible that the valkyrie is just used to transport legion serfs and support personal, of which the Death Guard were famous for implementing?

So guys, I just wondered what your thoughts on this are! Is there a valid argument for a valkyrie acting as part of a crusade-era Legion force, or is it something that you don't think really fits?

I don't think it really fits to be honest. The CCG does provide a useful resource, but I think using one card to justify something is pushing it somewhat. Although in this case at least its not a case of faulty labelling - the DG insignia on the Valkyrie in the artwork makes it clear that it is intended to be a Death Guard vehicle. Still, until there is support for their use by Legions from another source I'd be inclined to leave them out - they don't really fit with the ethos of Marine flyers, which seem to be larger and more heavily armoured (Stormbird, Thunderhawk).

if it were only the death guard though... if i remember correctly there is also a sons of horus one with marines manning the side heavy bolters

It's a PH vehicle, no doubt... I would say that they were still only used by the IA, but that this one was attached to the DG, maybe as part of a PDF or other expeditionary force?

If your opponents whines, kick them up the bum and point them here. :D

Ok thanks for the replies guys! If we exclude for a moment the use of them in a game, and just focus on background. We've already established that the legions behaved much more like an army than the 'surgical strike' of the Astartes in 40k - there massive numbers mean that they can take on roles which in 10,000 years will be the province of the IG - So, things like garrison duties, support and artillery roles, reconnaisance are all things that marines and involved in here.

So, going on this line of reasoning, the Thunderhawk and Stormbird are built and designed with very specific things in mind - the delivery of quantities of marines to a destination, and to back that up with massive firepower. But, what if some other task were needed? I'm thinking perhaps of a Valkyrie being used to speedily transfer a master of the fleet between warzones during the orchestration of a campaign of compliance. Or of a tiny recon force of marines being sped underneath radar and with minimum disturbance, deep within enemy territory. Neither a thunderhawk or stormbird would be suited to these roles, in the same way in our own modern military you wouldn't use a hercules or a c-16 for behind the lines stealthy incursions.

In this way a Valkyrie might fulfil the role of a huey in our own military, with 'Long tall sally' playing on the radio inside and one of astartes with a habit for chewing on tabacco :)

Your fluff reasoning sounds spot-on. As for in-game, do they really give you so much of an unfair advantage? I doubt it. I'd imagine that you'd be more inclined to use Valks in games of Apoc, wher anything goes.

Would that Astartes be a Sexual Tyrannosaurus? I didn't think they had much of a libido :lol:

Astartes ain't got time to bleed.

Sally(mander) Remember when I said I'll kill you last
I lied

When I said I'd kill you last? :D