I'm going to keep some of my thoughts and plans for the AotE III event (May 2010) in this thread, partially as a way of keeping it all in 1 place, but hopefully also to get some feedback from the rest of you (i'm still relatively new to this pre-heresy 'game'! :)

First of all i'm, as yet, undecided about which army i will take to the event. It is only a choice from 2 however - Death Guard or World Eaters

To choose Death Guard would basically be a continuation of my current army (the one i took to AotE II - if any of you saw it). There is limited conversion work (Mortarion) but its quite a nice base of an army. Choosing Death Guard for AotE III would basically be a project of adding a few cool characters and the odd unit and perhaps a super heavy/creature.


To Choose World Eaters would be pretty much starting a new army! I have about 20 Berzerkers & 10 Bloodletters at the moment but that's about it. I am kind of obsessed with getting hold of the Forgeworld Bloodthirster and love the fluff of Khârn.

Would the World Eaters still be represented in White + Blue at this time? when do they go Red? (i would kind of prefer to go red!)

I would LOVE to use this model, is anyone aware of a count-as or perhaps some fluff where a World Eater might have rode a Juggernaught? and i stretching this a bit far?



Hopefully that sets out my current state of mind, as and when i make some decisions or progress ill pop some pictures & some comments up too.

Cheers,

Moon

The sheer carnage at the siege of Terra left the World Eater's armour red from the blood, so either way red is perfectly fine to use - whether it's justified as paint or blood.

This is one of the nicest approaches I have seen though:





( from http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=363)

Although the blood soaked armour is a popular fan interpretation for the World Eaters livery change, it is not supported officially as far as I know - and it makes little real sense considering the later World Eaters scheme includes numerous brass elements and other colours, all of which would also have to be red if explanation was true...

A far more sensible interpretation is that the World Eaters repainted their armour in the colours of their new patron at some point after dedicating themselves to Khorne. As to exactly when it happened, the cover of Tales of Heresy suggests it happened some point before the end of the Heresy (the WE in the picture are represented with red armour and 'bunny ears') and the Bill King story about the Siege of Terra mentions Angron's 'red armoured followers' emerging from their drop pods so certainly seems to confirm the colour change had occured before the Siege.

To be honest you could get away with either scheme at this point - certainl;y the Word Bearers colour change seems to have happened gradually rather than all at once going by the novels, so its quite possible elements of the Legion in both schemes were present at the Siege of Terra. If you prefer red, then by all means use it if the army is set during the siege - it certainly seems supported by the background.

Cheers for the responses guys! Top-notch info The Red Sorcerer, much appreciated!!

Although a nice idea to simply lavish the gore onto their founding colour scheme, its not really my taste, this info that i could get away with the red/brass/bunny-ear'd colour scheme makes me happy! :) - i better get learning how to paint gold!

On another note, with the 'Bunny ears' it seems clear the Astartes of the World Eaters were at the very least issued new helmets? would this have only been for their Berserker units or across the whole legion?

Would this impact the mk of armour you would expect to see 'Bunny ear'd' Astartes in?

OBVIOUSLY they did actually have to paint their armour red at some point. Blood left caked on armour for 10,000 years would not be red... :rolleyes:

Apparently we will be getting rules for Cult Marines and Terminators. I'd say, go with bloodied white and blue for regular squad member legionnaires, and red and brass with bunny ears for the Berserkers.

It's a safe assumption, given the high risk factor involved with being a raving monster lunatic, that you either dedicate yourself to Khorne and repaint your armour, or you die quite fast. We can therefore justify why there are so few white'n'blue World Eaters left by M41.

I remember in Realms of Chaos 'Slaves to Drkness' that the World Eaters still have one part of their armour in the original Blue colour. Im not too sure of the exact page or whatnot as i dont have my books here at the moment. ill try to find out. Probably not much help, but at least it might tie in the two colour schemes if you go for the Blue and White marines and Red Berzerkers thang...

I think Moon's preference has been catered for now.

He just needs to decide.

Blood or decadence?

Bloody Decadance??? B)

I'm SO torn at the moment, my main concern about continuing my Deathguard is if there will be enough interesting units to add to my force for the next event. (as i already have 3k of models painted)

But on the flip side, painting a new 3000point army sounds sadistic! :)

I think i need to get hold of the IA books and have a look through at what i can add to my death guard - see if anything grabs my attention (almost all of my reason for going World Eaters would be the Forge World Bloodthirster! :D

death guard have some really nice stuff, i personally love the blight drone, but theres also the nurgle daemon prince and herald and if you can afford it theres also the great unclean one which is just awsome! ;)

Ross was pointing out blight drones to me last night - they certainly look interesting. I was never as much a fan of the FW Greater Nurgle Deamon as their Khorne one - but im warming to the idea :)

Would i be right in thinking his rules are best found in IA7 (siege of Vrakis part 3) ?

I'm very tempted to add some much needed firepower to my army, but often put off by felblade's etc too generic look. I seem to remember a White Dwarf nurgle variant baneblade with a Pus cannon etc - but that really is stretching my conversion skills!

the greater deamon rules are in the codex although i think they may be better in the chaos daemons one :unsure:

as for the nurgle fellblade its called a nurgle plague reaper and its in the apocalyps rule book there is also a nurgle unit in apocalypse reload called a plague tower which is pretty awsome ;)

Yeah sorry if i was a biit muddles - i have both the Codex's and used the rules for Kurgath (daemon dex) as a greater daemon in AotE II, but even he doesnt seem to be 'good-enough' for use of the FW model - i was hoping there might be some slightly more 'ubah' rules somewhere? :)

Ah yes, the nurgle plague reaper rings a bell! Ill go have a looksee, cheers!

Correct book. Tempted to grab it for myself after reading it!

all the FW greater daemons have uber stats in the IA books, apart from the LOC which is due in 8, supposedly.

They released each one with corresponding points and dates:
Slaanesh in 2006 for 666
Nurgle in 2007 for 777
Khorne in 2008 for 888
So Loc in 2009 with 999 points :)

I tend to be of the opinion that the World Eaters that made it back to the Eye of Terror after the siege were most likely bestowed with the "gift" of permanence of blood colour to their armour.

Maybe there's even a "the more you kill, the deeper your red becomes type thing"....

Something tells me that blood lust enraged nut bags aren't going to take the time to make sure that they've not painted over the edges of their brass work :D

I also seem to remember one of the 1st Gaunt's Ghosts novels mentioning a battle with World Eaters and that Gaunt noticed the stench of dried, corrupted blood before actually seeing them...

If you are looking for a cheap awesome nurgle greater daemon go to Ultra Forge

Cheers for the tip Loken, having had a look they all seem a little on the short side :) (i know im picky!)

I have the GW nurgle greater daemon as a backup - but assuming the FW rules for Pappa Nurgle are suitably nasty i wanted a more impressive model :)

As the day wears on im leaning more and more to Nurgle's persuasion! :) im going to leave any major purchases untill after Ulf has had time to do the first proper update of the Warmaster codex however - just in-case ;)

Blight Drones
FW Greater Daemon
Lucious Pod for my Venerable Dread
Plague Reaper Baneblade
Nurgle Deathstorm pod
Plague Marines
Plague Termies

Think i might get hold of some of that Forgeworld weathering powder too to add a bit of age to my tanks too.

Any and all ideas are always welcome - please chip in if you have a cool deathguard idea, im up for most things!

Look at ANGRONS Plague Marines... very sexy...


http://z15.invisionfree.com/The_Great_Crus...owtopic=540&hl=



well as sexy as ya can get when ya guts are slopping over your feet. :blink:

Woah! thay are full on Nurgle! :) no doubt in those guys minds :)

Very cool, cheers for the link.

no probs, when i saw those i was doing Death Guard myself and they just blew me away lol

Wonder where Angron's gone...

got a msg off him before, he is still around, just doin other things atm...

Hello all,

So, just a quick statement of intent for the next few months:

I'm working on my Son's of Orar till Christmas, although not strictly pre-heresy, it is a heavily Veteran based force, and some of the models are applicable here at least. (will hopefully have some pictures in the next few days)

I want to start my AotE II Deathguard additions in the next month or 2, including some of the ideas above - probably starting with a good old Forgeworld Plague Marine conversion kit (should it ever arrive! :rolleyes: )

But more pressing than any of these projects is the desire to properly kick off my membership to the Pre-heresy fraternity (ive been lurking for long enough! :lol: )

The problem is, im quite a novice at converting, and know even less about the armour specifics and where to get hold of them from. I am learning more and more each day from reading about this sites and in old GW publications, however a little support goes a long way - that's where you guys can hopefully help! :)

I dont know if you have considered this before, but the makings of a 'beginners guide to pre-heresy models' or 'how to get started' type guide would be really useful for people like me - with more enthusiasm than knowledge :)

So, if any of you are bored enough to respond to this, a few top-line tips as to what i should attempt and what i should maybe steer clear of on this first attempt would be very gratefully received! I really like painting Marines, and i'm not concerned as to the chapter/legion really, i like painting 1 off models and it would just be nice to get involved! :)

Once again, any and all assistance with ideas is appreciated!

Cheers,

Moon

There are various misc tutorials knocking around here (in such a forum) and a very good guide to each of the armour patterns. I did start a model guide, but no one seemed to care :P http://fulgrim.com/heresy/

You may have to be more specific on what you need help with though. What models. What parts. What legion, etc.

A quick snip at some imagery - http://www.pa-sy.com/hhccg/ search for deathguard cards.




A note on Superheavies - that 1 model allowance also includes gargantuan creatures. I'd check that any demons you have plans for don't fall into that classification as it'd clash with your plaguereaper.

Cheers for the reply Whitehorn,

I haven't seen that heresy link before - that's pretty cool! although the only mini i like from that list is the master of the arsenal dude. i very much like the idea of doing pre-heresy models that fit in with the more modern style of GW sculpts rather than their earlier work.

Specificity is tough when i am actually a bit clueless on this subject. i wouldn't mind painting a 'blue' chapter/scheme - have never done that before. I'm not a massive fan of cloaks and robes right now however.

I know im being incredibly vague, i guess i was just hoping there were more ideas out there than people had chance to work on so lots of opportunity.

I would guess that im best off either picking a well documented character with artwork and trying to emulate it in a model? or picking a current GW model that happens to Have pre-heresy armour.

regarding the AotE event, cheers for the heads up - i was actually planning to take the large FW greater daemon of Nurgle as well, will have to check if he's gargantuan....probably is...booo!

1 answer to that :Pre-heresy World Eaters (or Ultramarines)

Blue and White.

Models sat right in front of you:

Chaos marines and berserkers use Pre-heresy armour. Simply clip off the bunny ears. A few veteran marines have the right armour too:



Many people start with the Red Scorpions from Forgeworld

The metal models of Chronus and Captain Sicarius are in Pre-Heresy type armour.
Chronus is wearing Mk 3 and Sicarius is wearing an artificered Mk 2 with Mk 7 helmet.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/...dId=prod1530007
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/...dId=prod1530008

The Space Marine Chapter Masters boxset has one in Mk 3 armour (Master of the Arsenal) and another with Mk 3 parts (Master of the Watch).

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/...dId=prod1060070

In plastics the Black Templar sprue has Mk 3 & Mk 4 helmets as well as a Mk 4 chest.
The Dark Angel/Ravenwing sprue has Mk 3 helmets.

The tactical squad from Assault on Black Reach has models with Mk 3 helmets, one with an artificered Mk 4/5 helmet and a model with Mk 4 legs.

There are Mk 5 chests on both the standard Sm and CSM Tactical sprues. There are even helmets that are close to Mk 5 on each.

Anything else is usually down to conversion.

Really, really easy way of getting mk2 and mk3 armour:

Maxmini.eu 'steam knight' helmets

They also do a great line in RT style, giant turbo-fan jump packs.

Also, just to give you something else to think about, if you're a mentalist you can make your own mk5 armour (If you're not much of a fan of the CSM plastic one)

mk5 armour tutorial

The whole pre-heresy modelling thing can definately a bit daunting at first, but to be honest you can get away with very little - I reckon probably less than 15-20% of the armies at AoTE were 'canon'. Obviously if you want to make the army as 'right' as possible, you can attain frightening levels of nerdiness down to cabling being in the correct place and types of knee pad.

Personally, I think the most important component is the helm which immediately identifies the marine as pre-heresy, so I'd go from that and work your way up!

Where do you get the other marks of helmets?

You can make Mk. 1, 2, and 3 Heads with normal plastic ones, and there is a Mk.4 in the Black Templar Upgrade, Mk. 5's in the Chaos Marine Set, and Mks 6 and 7 in the Space Marine Set, i believe that a marine with Mk. 8 can have any head, but seeing as it isn't pre-heresy, that doesn't matter

Thanks, Going to be so much fun.

@ Gagoc TheAncient - Awesome info mate, exactly the kind of thing i was looking for! Thanks a lot!

I have been looking for an excuse to buy Chronus for a while - now have one! the model should allow me to make a few but relatively easy conversions (pointing arm) and have a nice unique canon pre-heresy model as a base to work from!

I shall have to look out for those Mk3 helemets you refer to, i must have some unknowingly lying about!

@ Pacific - Cheers for the maxmini link - those helmets look real nice, and I agree, the helmet seems to go along way to making a pre-heresy model from what I have seen! Am i right in thinking that maxmini can take a silly amount of time to deliver orders however?

That Mk5 tutorial really looks impressive, thanks for linking it! the only problem i have is that i, for some reason, dont like the look of mk5 :( im a superficial b*****d at times :P but i think i would rather stick to mk2 + 3 for a little bit ;)


Really appreciate you guys expending your knowledge on us noobs! Cheers for the assistance! B)

Another good source of useful bits is the Iron Warriors bits pack - see here - which has some useful helms and chests. Rather expensive these days unfortunately (was a fair bit cheaper when they introduced it) but has 5 chests that are good for Mk II or III armour, and 4 of the 5 heads are also good for Mk II/III (although you'll need to chop the horns off some of them).

The best way to get that pre-heresy 'look' is to avoid using Mk VII parts - either heads or chests - as they immediately signify post-heresy to people. So no eagle chests, and none of the 'standard' marine helms. I'd avoid being too 'correct' in trying to recreate the original armour marks 'look' too exactly - going by Collected Visions and other more recent artwork, pre-heresy marine armour was much more mixed together/customised than is represented by the original models. Mixing and matching certain Chaos marine parts, carefully selected Loyalist Marine parts/models, and bits available from other sources (the Maxmini heads and the Forgeworld Mk IV set being the most obvious) you can get a convincingly pre-heresy look without having to attempt insanely complex conversions.

Actually, one of the Iron Warrior helmets looks like a Mk IV (after you've removed the horns).

Some of the Heads from the Chaos Terminator Lord look Mk III-ish, then there's the Champion heads from the CSM tactical squad box that have a similar vibe.

Another good source is the Warhammer Chaos Warrior and Chaos Knight sets. These plastics are a good source for Mk III-type helmets.

My first order took about 6 weeks.

My second order took about 120 days. They posted it 3 times apparently. The third attempt arrived in 2 weeks. The previous 2 obviously never arrived. Shame AOTE2 is long gone, as that's what I wanted the bits for!

I've been trying to get cannon armour types for a while have them all done now bar MK1 (coming soon ;) )

here's my take.....a bit of green stuff, a bit of pink stuff and a bit of cream stuff and bob's humpin your aunty..

MK2



plastic tank gunner torso, maxmini steam knight head, normal padded marine legs chopped and filled.

MK3


FW red scorpion sgt torso with aquilla removed, plastic templar head, legs same as MK2 but just on rear of legs

MK4


head and torso from FW red scorpions, MK7 (greaved) legs with slits cut down the sides and top of greave slit to make small square knee pad.

MK5


Chaos space marine head and torso, legs same as MK4 without mods and additional studs and piping added.

MK's 6 & 7 straight outa the box.

all WIP shots - will try to get some pictures of finished models - check out my space wolves force for painted pics of MK5 & MK4.