Hi all,

Along with still planning my Surrian Janissary troopers (*fingers drum on table as wait for ebay bits to arrive continues...*) I've been turning my thoughts to what else to include in my PH Imperial Army, and as you may have guessed from the thread title, I'm thinking beastmen. The IG Codex has a para or two near the start that mentions "unusual troop types" in armies of the Great Crusade, specifically mentioning "mutants" and "grav vehicles" (something else I'll have to explore at some point I think).

This is enough justification in my mind to reinstate the RT-era beastman units in the Army. Question is how best to represent them? I've come up with two options and would appreciate any thoughts and opinions on which might be best (along with any alternate suggestions ofcourse).

Option 1 - Beastman infantry platoons

Basically a straight substitution for guard infantry - squads of 10 including a sergeant type. Warrior weapons doctrine to allow the unit to take pistol/ccw or 2 x ccw, although I'd still include a special weapon-toting trooper (not sure thats list legal but sod it, it seems appropriate). Wouldnt use heavy weapon teams. Command platoon would be standard guardsmen.

(NB: I would also include standard guard platoons in the army, without the Warrior Weapon option, equipped as normal).

Option 2 - Beastman conscript platoons

Again, Warrior Weapons doctrine. Taking as conscripts allows bigger units which has a nice feel to it - screens of cannon fodder abhumans sent forth into close combat while the rest of the army advances behind them. However, this means taking lower stats for the beastmen (WS & BS 2) which doesnt seem appropriate. This can be counteracted with Hardened Fighters, but means that a unit of beastman conscripts ties up 3 doctrine options for the army (Warrior Weapons, Hardened Fighters and Conscript Platoons). And thats without considering that it would be quite thematic for the Beastmen to be led by an Independent Commisar... Using a five point doctrine system in a PH guard army potentially becomes quite restrictive given the differences between Pre and Post Heresy armies.

My instinct is to go for the second option and not worry too much about doctrines and whatnot, but it'd be nice if the units I collected were capable of being game legal should I ever play a game with them... My only other idea is to have both options, and should I find myself playing with them, take whichever version fits best with the rest of the army at the time (i.e. if doctrines will be needed for other units, take option 1, but if I can get away with only 1 or 2 more doctrines in the army then field them as option 2).

All thoughts, comments and criticism gratefully received.

-Anodyr

I'd say go with the flexible approach, they are both viable options, though I agree that the conscripts seems more appropriate.

For friendly games (especially if you build them up to Apoc level), you could make up your own unit rules/datasheet based on the conscript entry, just adapting it so that it doesn't chew up doctrine points...

Yeah, the flexible approach is my favourite. The hardest part is the fact that taking Warrior Weapons would restrict the entire army to pistol/ccw or 2 x ccw, not just the beastmen.

As far as I can tell its pretty much impossible to arm a unit of guardsmen (conscript or regular infantry) with pistols/ccws without compromising the entire army. Which is a bit of a bugger really, as I simply dont envision these guys toting lasguns.

Apparently there is a doctrine in White Dwarf which would give +1 WS and Furious Charge (totally appropriate for my Beasts) but would take up 3 doctrine points (Abhumans, Homo sapiens variatus, Conscript platoons) alone, and I dont even know if that provides the right armament.

Most frustrating! :(

OR you could make them sister repentias from Codex:Witchunters and have the accompanying priest as the "herder"... I think you can take 20 in a unit...

I'd say use them as special units like veterans or other guys who can have CCW. I don't see HUGE regiments of them fighting entirely alongside normal humans, even PH...

Actually thats not a bad solution. Just checked the codex and taking them as Hardened Vets works well - they even get the choice of chimera transport or infiltrate. Plus the opportunity to take 3 special weapons, which is never a bad thing. The additional BS point goes to waste a bit (although its good for the spec weapons), but its a small price to pay for being able to otherwise field them in a hand to hand role. If I wanted to take doctrines on top, hardened fighters takes them to WS4 which is nothing to be sniffed at, plus the vet sergeant gets access to the armoury.

Its a big switch from mooing cannon fodder to elite warrior, but Im not about to build hundreds of them anyway so I can live with that. I'd still go with using big conscript units in a friendly game (opponent permitting ofcourse) but Im happy knowing that there is a slot available in the codex that they can comfortably sit in.

Cheers chaps. :)

That's what I'd thought would work. :)

Another great mind! :D

If you have already got the Siege Of Vraks:Part 2 then ignore this but the new Vraksian army list includes a unit called the Bloodgors who are equipped with 2 close combat weapons but can take lasguns for +1 points. These might be what you are looking for and if you want the rules for them, i can give them to you.

Note: I have posted this same info on your main army post before i found this new topic.