hi guys I was just woundering what a Storm Bird looked like. I started reading the horus heresy books form the ones I have read they don't really talk of the older drop ships. so I thought I'd ask you guy about that.

I always thought of them as a larger Thunderhawk transporter that has the crew compartment stretched to the tail of the Thunderhawk.

Glad this topic came up again - I remember there being a thread on it in the old forum, but that was kind of deleted :angry: .
Anyway, the novels generally describe the Stormbird as being much more graceful and elegant compared to the Thunderhawk, as well as substantially larger; it had forward-sweeping wings and a conical nose(unlike the square nose of the Thunderhawk or Marauder). It also said that the Stormbird had both frontal and rear assualt ramps, with rear-facing cage seats and an elevated crew compartment (which contained two pilots and two servitors, if memory serves me right). One of our very own board members is building the Firebird now(Brother Captain Baslius, if I'm not mistaken), so you may want to use that as a reference as well. Other than that, I can't help you much until I get a chance to look at my HH books again. Hope that helps some, and it'd be great if we could get someone like Gagoc to weigh in on it (he'd commented upon it quite a bit before, if I remember right).

EDIT: By the way, welcome to the boards, hohoman2 and Corax; don't think I've seen either of you on here before (or at least haven't welcomed you yet).

I would just think it'd look a lot like a bird, but that probably doesnt help too much
But I'd go with a modern jet fighter look but just bigger and bulkier

I think GreyWolf has most of it. They are larger and more 'sleek' than Thunderhawks. Still, they are described as 'fat bodied' and 'heavy-duty'. There are several different variants in service (the Luna Wolves, for example, use the 'Warhawk VI' pattern). They have some kind of 'underwing cannons', as well as cannons mounted underneath the cockpit, and 'rotary cannons in forward pintle mounts'. In addition, they are armed with racks of missiles under the wings. They are often described as looking somewhat similar to birds of prey, so judging by this I would have thought their wings are much larger in proportion rather than the relatively small wings on a Thunderhawk. The wings are described as folding inwards while landing as well.

Here are the details of the Stormbird that I have managed to find thus far, which I hope may be of some help.

Interior:

A central spinal aisle (with low overhead handrails) contains stowage for weapons and rear-facing cage seats where the Space Marines are strapped in.

The cockpit is divided from the troop carrying section by a hatch at one end of the spinal aisle. In the cockpit itself two flight officers sit back to back, facing wall panel consoles. Beyond them in the frontal cone of the Stormbird are two Pilot Servitors. These are hard-wired into forward facing helm positions.

Exterior:

Stormbirds are heavy, armoured delivery vehicles. They are described as 'monstrous, fat-bodied flyers' (False Gods P. 91-92). Despite their great size and heavy armour, they are honed and sleek. Their wings when extended are 'like hawks' and they are flared. They wings are folded upon landing.

The engines are positioned under the wings, as are missle racks. Wide rotary cannons are seated in forward pintel mounts

The disembarking/assault ramp is at the rear of the Stormbird and it has a series of skids upon which it lands.

In the frontal cone of the Stormbird there are forward slit-ports.

Details taken from Horus Rising P. 139, 149 and False Gods P. 91-92, 103, 183

I know I'm covering the same ground as Vespasian but I seem to garnered more from the novels.
So here's what I have gleaned on Stormbirds from the Horus Heresy Novels up to Descent Of Angels. I haven't read Legion yet so things may change or be updated.

I have also added references to the book and page(s) that I found the source material on.

Based on points made in this thread (from Shroudfilm & Vespasian) I've updated this piece to better address these points and to include the information I had missed.

Stormbirds:

Description:
Its actual pattern type is a Warhawk VI, and they were originally manufactured for the campaigns of the Unification Wars. It is possible that it was initially designed as a sub-orbital combat transport, as they were built in or around Indonesia (Yndonesic Bloc in the book) for use against forces based in and around the Pacific (the Panpacific tribes) (Horus Rising P139).

The stormbird is a heavy, void capable, armoured transport and delivery vehicle that is also sleek and honed for atmospheric work (Horus Rising P139). In comparison Thunderhawks are smaller and described as 'not as sleek' (False Gods P205),

Fuselage:
It also described as having its 'wings extended, like hawks waiting to be thrown to the lure.' (Horus Rising P139), though this may also refer to the folding wing design as the wingspan is too large for the entrance of the embarkation decks (False Gods P183). In Flight Of The Eisenstein A Stormbird is described in the following fashion whilst landing "The ship settled and folded its raptor wings to its fuselage." (P162). The folding mechanism appears to be powered by the craft itself, and not a manually handled operation, though whether this is a form of swing wing design, naval folding wing design or some design unique to that age, is as much your guess as mine.
Described as 'dangerously graceful birds of prey' (False Gods P29), they get the adjective 'Sleek' when described when compared to the 'Heavy' Thunderhawk (Flight Of The Eisenstein P62).

It's nose, based on the description of the cockpit, seems to a cone with 'forward slit-ports for the pilots to look out of, either servitor-pilots (Horus Rising P149) or human ones (Fulgrim P88), though the cockpit layout may not be standard. The shape of the forward section of the Stormbird may contribute to the 'bird of prey' analogy.

Carrying Capacity:
The troop capacity is at least 50, with 12 being able to carry a Company of 600 Space Marines (Horus Rising P139 & 141). This, to a certain extent, is a also borne out by the fact that Horus uses six Luna Wolf Stormbirds from one embarkation deck (False Gods P88), which are joined by 12 more Luna Wolf Stormbirds, and two Word Bearer Stormbirds, (False Gods P98), twenty in total, to carry 4 detachments of nearly 200 Luna Wolves, each led by one of the Mournival (False Gods P109) for the attack on Davin's moon, as well as himself and a possible honour guard. Though there are references to 5 Companies of Luna Wolves (False Gods P89) and a detachment of Word Bearers in the force (False Gods P135).

Weapons Payloads:
They have the capacity to carry racks of missiles beneath each wing (False Gods P91), and bear cannons slung beneath the cockpit (False Gods P88), though it is uncertain if these are the same as the rotary cannons in forward pintle mounts (False Gods P91). (Pintle mounted refers to a weapon being mounted on a vertical rod allowing to be rotated.)
A Stormbird can be modified to carry extra missiles and stowage compartments at the, as Ferrus Manus's Stormbird (Fulgrim P147).

Internal Arrangement:
For the Luna Wolves' Stormbirds there is a central 'spinal' aisle, and the troops sit in rear facing 'cage seats', whilst the cockpit holds four crew, 'two flight officers sat back to back, facing wall panel consoles' though it is possible that they are separated by an aisle to allow access forward to the two pilot servitors hardwired to the helm consoles (Horus Rising P149).
But the Stormbirds of the Dark Angels seem to have a different layout for the passenger compartment with at least some Astartes sitting against the fuselage (Descent Of Angels P384), and sat across from brother Astartes (Descent Of Angels P385).

Other Details:
A Stormbird appears to have at least a frontal assault ramp (Fulgrim P147) and a rear debarking ramp (False Gods P103), as well as other means possible of egress as Dark Angel Stormbirds are described as having 'assault doors' (Descent Of Angels P387).

The landing gear appears to be landing skids (False Gods P103, Fulgrim P147), probably similar to those of the Thunderhawk.

The Firebird:
It is possible that Fulgrim's Firebird is a variant of the Warhawk pattern type, and may even be a Stormbird variant. It is described has having a greater wingspan than the Stormbird with the wings curved in a graceful backwards sweep and a hooked prow (Fulgrim P86 & P144). It even has landing claws (Fulgrim P202).

Model details:
In models terms a Stormbird's fuselage is probably of a similar size to that of Forge Worlds Tau Orca dropship. And in the case of the Stormbird described in Descent Of Angels, a similar internal configuration.




There are currently unanswered questions about the Stormbirds design. For example:

Was arrangement of cockpit and passenger compartment like the Thunderhawks? The cockpit on an elevated deck with a single deck for the passenger compartment and access to a frontal assault ramp under the cockpit as well as a rear ramp, like a modern Hercules military transport.

Or was the main fuselage section on two decks? With the cockpit and passenger compartment sharing an upper deck allowing for vehicle or cargo transport on the lower deck.

Or was it a single deck aircraft with the assault ramp part of the lower section of the cockpit area's nose-cone?

With the basic description of 'pintle mounted' for the structure holding the rotary cannons, could this possibly allude to a mounting like the sponsons of the M40 Predator? Or would they be some form of turret, possibly like the ones found on a M40 Razor Back, or underneath the wing of Thunderhawk?

I'm sure that the main passenger compartment was congruous with the cockpit from my understanding of the novels (ref. Whisperheads etc) rather than being on two levels. I got the impression that the officer was free to move between his troops and the pilots, but that the movement still left him in view of his men.

I definately agree with both of these statements. I imagine that it would be similar to some modern military transports, with the pilots' compartment being roughly 5 feet or so elevated with a steep stair/ ladder (like a ship's ladder) leading up to it from the deck (or spinal aisle in this case).

I certainly agree with you Shroudfilm. That is the same impression that I get from the novels.

Gagoc: I don't think that that is actually an unanswered question, as the section that Shroudfilm refers to, makes the configuration quite clear:

'Loken moved down the spinal aisle of the lead Stormbird...He reached the cockpit section and wrenched open the hatch to enter.' Horus Rising Page 149

Well the Stormbirds used by the Luna Wolves definately have rear assault ramps,

'The Stormbird touched down...as the disembarking ramp dropped from the rear of the Stormbird.' False Gods P. 103

Thanks for pointing that out Shroudfilm.
And Vespasian, great catch! I'd missed that bit on the debarkation ramp.

I've updated my post based on your inputs, and given some credit to you.

Is it me or does it sound as if the front ramp was for assaults, the rear ramp for orderly disembarking of the Stormbird, and the assault doors for the Astartes equivalent of a parachute drop?

And what about the weapons, like those pintle mounted rotary cannons? I've mentioned a possible looks / designs for them in the edited post, but I'm wondering if anyone can come with something different if not better.

I personally didn't get that impression. When it is first discribed, it is as "a gunship he had personally designed and constructed in the armourium decks of his flagship." This certainly seems to imply it is a new design rather than a modified Stormbird, particularly as it is described as a 'gunship' rather than a transport/delivery vehicle like the Stormbird.

I got the impression that this is the pattern used by the Luna Wolves, but not necessarily the other legions. The slight differences there seem to be between Stormbirds used by different Legions (the different seating arrangement in the Dark Angels version, for example, or the fact that the Luna Wolves always seem to exit from a rear ramp, wheras the Emperor's Children always seem to disembark from a front ramp) suggests that there is a basic common design with slight variations depending on which pattern it is, similar to the different patterns of Leman Russ tanks that can be seen in the 41st millenium. So different patterns could have different seating arrangements, different exit arrangements (front or rear ramps for example) and even different weapons.

As for the pintle mounted rotary cannons, I suspect it will be something similar to the heavy bolter mounts found on a Thunderhawk, or perhaps - given that the Stormbird is a sleeker design - more like the round gun turrets found on WW2 heavy bombers. As to whether they are the same as the cannons under the nose, I suspect not. When the cockpit cannons are mentioned in False Gods, they are being 'calibrated' by servitors - when used relating to the weaponry of an aircraft, this tends to imply fixed weapons are being adjusted so that their shots converge at a certain range. The pintle-mounted cannons, however, are clearly free to traverse and thus not the sort of arnement that would require calibrating. Not 100% definite, but it suggests they are different weapons.

The Dark Angels version was something like 100 years before the Heresy. Is it possible that upgrades/new designs made the Stormhawk obsolete and replaced it with the Stormbird, or something similar?

@ShroudFilm: Oops, put Stormhawk instead of Stormbird. I don't think there is actually any mention of Stormhawks in the background.

The fact that the Stormbird itself is described as an old design in Horus Rising seems to imply it has not replaced anything, but is itself being replaced... at this stage 'most of the expeditions are now reliant on the smaller, standard construct Thunderhawk pattern", and the Stormbird itself was originally developed on Terra so was certainly around before the Great Crusade started. Still, I imagine there were plenty of different patterns of Stormbird developed... at least 6 - as the Lunar Wolves version is the Warhawk VI - and almost certainly more.

Red Sorceror; actually the 'gunship' reference does not rule out the Firebird being a variant of a Stormbird as you find that the modern Hercules aircraft has both a transport and a gunship version.
That and the reference to the Firebird having a greater wingspan, and that it seems capable of transporting Fulgrim and the Phoenix Guard.

As to the reference to the Warhawk VI pattern type, you're right it could be read as referring to a variant in the possession of the Luna Wolves.
But because of the vagueness of that excerpt, and the fact that 'pattern' tends to be used to describe a underlying type of design (e.g.: Dreadnought battleships), this piece could be read as the Stormbird is part of a larger group of designs collectively referred to as Warhawks.

And as I mentioned even the Thunderhawk has two ramps, and on the Strombird the ramp designations seem to indicate two different uses.

Now that you mention it the underslung cannons calibrations does seem to fit with the convergence of their range, so you're probably right.

As for the rotary cannons, I guess it all depends on what Graham McNeill means by pintle mounted. Someone should probably ask him!

As for the difference in the sets of seating for the Luna Wolves and Dark Angels Stormbirds my reference is, once again, the Hercules. In the Hercules you do have those seats along the fuselage, but more standard seating can easily be installed for transport of VIP passengers.

I do have another question.
Do you think the Stormbird's wings were placed like the Thunderhawk's, towards the ventral part of the fuselage, or placed like the Hercules on the dorsal part of the fuselage?
If they're placed dorsally, then the Stormbird would appear more bird-like which could contribute to it's sleek predatory look.

TRS gave a direct quote Gagoc, and it implicitely states that Fulgrim designed it himself. It may be based on the Stormbird, but I highly doubt it considering Fulgrim's predilection towards perfection... That's my opinion anyway.

Actually it was the Dreadnought Class, not pattern ;) . In 40K, GW mostly seem to use 'Pattern' to designate a particular version of a commonly used design, often dependent on the Forgeworld of origin (see Forgeworld's tank range here, where you have 'Graia' and 'Artemia' Pattern Hellhounds, 'Ryza', 'Mars Alpha' and 'Gryphonne' Pattern Leman Russ tanks, and so on. Admittedly, in the same passage they refer to the 'Thunderhawk Pattern' so it could be read either way. Still, I think the fact that 'Warhawk VI' sounds more specific than 'Stormbird' - which seems to be a general term in use with all the Legions to refer to these types of landers - suggests that it is a type of Stormbird, rather than referinng to Stormbirds generally. After all, the 'Stormbird' design itself has been around since pre-unification Terra, and surely it would have been developed and updated since, hence the different patterns (six versions of the 'Warhawk' pattern, and there are probably other patterns as well) .

I suspect that the wings would be mounted towards the front of the fuselage rather than the rear myself. As you say, given the frequency with which the Stormbird is described as 'birdlike', 'hawklike' and so on, this certainly suggests wings towards the front rather than the rear.

Your summary also doesn't mention the fact they have cannons under the wings as well. Shourtly after the 'Warhawk VI' section in Horus Rising, it mentions Keeler taking a pict of an 'underwing cannon'.

Weiss; You're right the Firebird is probably a fresh design, but I felt it was at least similar in size and probably similar in design. The latter being helpful from a modelling point of view.

Red Sorceror; I did infer the 'Warhawk VI pattern' bit could be taken either way.

And it appears that your definition of 'Dorsal' and 'Ventral' are different to mine.
Commonly they're used to refer to the fins on fish and cetaceous animals such as Dolphins, with the Dorsal fin being the fin on the animals back and the Ventral fins being on the underside of the animals body.

But I've also come across their use in describing features on spaceships from sci-fi, Dorsal for the crafts upper surface and Ventral for the craft's underside. For example, a Stardestroyer's bridge is in a tower on the ships dorsal hull, whilst external access to the docking and Tie bays is on the ventral hull.

So in this case I was referrring to the wings either being like a jetliner with the main fuselage on top of them, or like the hercules with the main fuselage below them.

And as for the underwing cannons, I'd made a note of them but completely forgot it when I was writing up my piece. D'oh! :o

Ah, ok. In that case I think they probably are dorsal wings, on the top of the fuselage, both for the fact that supports the 'bird of prey' descriptions, and the fact they have considerable amounts of stuff underneath from the looks of things (cannons, bombs, jets) which would probably cause problems with ground clearance if they were at the bottom of the fuselage. I assume that for the ease of use of the assault ramps etc the Stormbird has a relatively low ground clearance, so it would be easier to understand the amount of stuff under the wings if they are higher up the body.

look on the net for the old tzeentch flyers, one is like a big birdie... could be sometning like that me thinks <_<

grr bloddy thing is confusin me again... thats the best pik me can find

Sorted. Vredesbyrd.

Not quite what I had in mind!
It's a bit too bird-like, if you get my meaning. It wouldn't surprise me if that flyer did pigeon-esque bombing runs!

Although I am beginning to think that the Stormbirds wings were more birdlike and less WWII carrier planes.

Here is an old pic of one I found on WiP



And here is a scratchbuilt one from the same site

That artwork looks like someone watched Aliens and then Terminator before going to work... :rolleyes:

And GW try to sue everyone who even mentions "Space Marines"?! :lol:

With those big turbine engines I always thought of that vehicle in the artwork as being something different. I envisage the Stormbird as having wings similar to the Imperial Lightning Fighter, but obviously bigger and more powerful.

I agree with Vredesbyrd, that artwork is from a period when Stormbirds were not yet part of the background, and differs significantly from the descriptions in the novels - most notably the huge turbines and lack of wings (the Stombird has engines under the wings rather than the arrangement in the picture).

We have a giant copy of that artwork in the gaming room in the GW in Carlisle and it harks from the days when Apothecaries bore 'love hearts' on their armour, and Marines wrote things like 'Eat this' and 'Give blood' on their armour. I'll try to take a picture of the whole thing when I'm home next. There's a one showing Titans and PH Landraiders too which I can try to snap.

Just thought I would throw my own opinion out there (here),

the kind of image I got was something similar to the NASA Space Shuttle but with a folding wing design.





Cone shaped nose, long cyclindrical body, relatively streamlined with big heavy engines. Im not quite sure where the rear facing ramp would be positioned, but hopefully you get the idea.

goroul

[Pics please, not links -Shroud]

DOH! Sorry about the links.

Please can people remember to post images and not links!

I may have posted this before, but I think it was on the old boards... this is how I imagined Stormbirds to look, in shape if not in size -



That's Cyclonus from the original 1986 Transformers movie...



The Horus 'Death Gliders' from Stargate...




Various Centauri ships from Babylon 5...

Well when it comes to these proposed designs there are certain key details to be kept in mind.

Here's what I think they are:

1).It's sleek and honed for atmospheric work, with a cone shaped nose and cockpit area, though it is also described as fat-bodied. And it is a heavy void capable craft (large engines?).
2).It has an automatic folding wing system which folds them to the fuselage, as the wingspan is too large for the bay entrances. They are positioned high enough to carry weapons payloads and are described as being 'raptor wings'.
3).It has cannons (autocannons?) slung beneath the cockpit, and more cannons mounted underwing. Also under the wings are racks for missiles. There is also mention of wide rotary cannons (assaultcannon-type?) seated in forward pintle mounts.
4).It has the capacity to carry at least 50 power armoured Astartes in its troop/passenger compartment. There is a rear bebarkation ramp and a forward assault ramp, as well as assault doors (side doors?).

I'm sure there some points which are debatable, and that more can be added to this list.

Amazing how much those "horus-death gliders" remind me of Cylon wing fighters from the original Battlestar Gallactica.

I think it's just the folding wings, but I can't help but think of the Imperial Shuttle from Star Wars...

That actually sounds just like a massive version of Cyclonus above... :D

Cyclonis's nose is too long for a stormbird IMO
If you put the nose from the first stormbird pic I posted and put that on cyclonis's body,then we would be cooking with gas :)

I hope when GW comes out with a T-Hawk it's not too expensive
if they come in at $200 then I may just convert me a stormbird.

I don't know about you guys but I am dying to make Saul's T-hawk

Shroud; I just realised that I'd left out a few important details on the wings, so I've edited my previous post to include them.

It may or may not affect how you visualise a Stormbird.

This is how I picture it
very similar to the dropship in aliens on a much larger scale

Aside from the fact that it seems a bit too snubbed in the profile view, I agree almost entirely with BigWill's concept sketch. It looks suitably birdlike without compromising its transport capabilities. If the wings fold just over the engines, it would also be qualified as a Naval transport. All in all, I like that version of it.

I've just been checking through my notes and I've come across another Stormbird detail not mentioned before.

There is a reference to gold wings on the Stormbird's glacis (Fulgrim P474). The most pertinent description for glacis I can find is the sloped front armour plate of a tank, which is usually of a higher grade of armour.

What do you think?
Or can anyone throw some more light on this?

I would think that passage decribes the nose of the stormbird which would probally be as heavily armoured as a Main Battle Tank.
With angled armour to help deflect the kinectic energy of shellfire.

The last Babylon 5 pic is how I picture the Firebird.

The glacis plate is the sloped armour that runs from the belly plate up to the sloping front armour. It is there to deal with the inevitable impacts from mounds of dirt, stumps etc. as well as to assist in the funnelling of blast pressure from mines ( :angry: ) away from the driver/crew.
It's normaly the same armour thickness as the rest of the vehicle. However it gives greater protection by being angled, thus making incoming projectiles attempt to penetrate through more of the same plate.

A good example of a Glacis Plate is on the front of an Imperial Chimera APC.



So in the case of the Stormbird, it coould be refering to the front assault ramp or the plate under the cockpit a la the thunderhawk.
I hope that helps. :)