in the IRC chat, we ask about ts 1.0 if it's really different from ta 1.0
I never knew it's a different until yesterday..or it's not?

this is what i got: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVLBHVu6Z_Q
read below for more detail

@zblader: I'm really sorry but the "zblader" in the IRC chat is me

:unsure:

The thing in the video that you called TS rev 1.0, looked like a fake reverse (it didnt go around the thumb?)

I believe thumbspins still go around the thumb as something like indexspin still goes around the index, even though it spins on the top/side of it.

Research guys. Always do that before asking question.
http://www.pentrix.com/upsb2/viewtopic.php?p=21264#21264
Look under the ThumbAround versus ThumbSpin problem.
As can be seen, ThumbAround 1.0 and ThumbSpin 1.0 are the same thing.
They are different when done with multiple spins.

Jeez, we just had that arguement too on iRC like last week or something. Same result:
TA=1 time around the thumb
TS=At LEAST 1.5 spins times on top of the thumb.

Thumbspin 1.0 is synonymous with Thumbaround. I suppose it has a different name so it is concordant with the other finger-arounds.

No it isnt, there cannot be such thing as a TS 1.0 because if it goes around once, its just a TA. Therefore, a TS MUST have at least 1.5 spins on top of the thumb.

Hence, my initial statement. I said Thumbspin 1.0 is synonymous with Thumbaround. That means they are the same thing, which is what you are saying as well. I dont see what you're trying to argue.

I'm trying to say that they are not the same, just read the UPSB forum. Tt clearly states that a TA goes around the thumb once, and only once. The TS goes half way around the thumb and then does at least .5 spins then finishes the TA. Thats the difference.

Edit: TA can do multiple arounds, but its kinda hard to make the pen go AROUND your thumb 2.5 times.

I think that you think that a trick must have a unique name. This is not the case. For example, Shadow 12-23 and Moonwalk Sonic 1.5 12-23 are the same.

Generally speaking, the ThumbAround and ThumbSpin (especially Multiple ThumbSpins) start and end in the identical hand position.

I don't know about you, but that part that says "especially multiple thumbspins" leads me to infer that it is possible to do a thumbspin that is not "multiple." I assumed this existed in the form of Thumbspin 1.0.

Well, if it is a TS 1.0 then you wouldnt count the TA halves you do before and after the spin. That is the only way I can see how you could do a TS 1.0. That wouldnt work because in PS you would count the .5 TA before and after the spin.

That is exactly why I am saying they are the same.

Anyway, this is a very trivial matter. If it does exist (which I still assert) it is irrelevant because everyone calls it Thumbaround anyway.

it is possible to do TS 1.0 i jsut did it.

ThumbAround? Or something else? Video please.

TS 1.0 is caught on top of the thumb? I can make the pen do one spin and catch it on the thumb, so ti doesn't go around it, only spins on top. Also, TA 1.5 is possible, you have to catch it the wrong side with your middle finger. When i get a cam i'll film both so you can see what i mean.

TA and TS 1.0 and extended TA/fake double :pullhair:

So much confusion

Well, with that conclusion, that would mean the nameing system is flawwed. A TS 1.0 would be what we today call a TS 2.0, seeing how we dont count it going around the thumb.

ts 1.0 just do same thing as ts 1.5 but stop earlier, i dont get why it's so hard to figure out. and it's not the same as ta 1.0

I dont see a difference

Isn't TS OVER the thumb and TA AROUND the thumb?
I'm not sure but thats how i learnt it...

um.. the first trick in my vid. that's my ts 1.0. It's dorky because i just learned it but if that's not ts 1.0, then what is it?

Personally I would call the first trick you did a side spin. It's not exactly a typical side spin but it's far closer to being that that it is to being a TS.

The first spin was more like a spider spin (side spin)

spider spin it spins on the phalanx of ur middle finger

Well, with that conclusion, that would mean the nameing system is flawwed. A TS 1.0 would be what we today call a TS 2.0, seeing how we dont count it going around the thumb.

I'm sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I was agreeing with you about the part where you count the spins Thumbspin does around the thumb. Basically, I see it like this:

Thumbspin n has half a spin around the thumb, (1-n) spins on the thumb, and finishes with another half spin around the thumb. n spins total. In the case where n = 1, there are zero spins on the thumb, meaning it just goes once around the thumb, which is, of course, a Thumbaround.

When we say thumbspin n, n means the total number of rotations the pen does in the trick. So, TS 1.5, it does 1 rotation arund the thumb, and an extra half one on top. TS 4.5, it does 3.5 on top and one around. The system isn't flawed.

:banghead: :angryfire: :pullhair:

You guys are freaking rediculously clueless.

Here's from an old timer.

A Thumb Spin is a rotation done above the thumb that does not travel below the first phalanx of the thumb and also performs it's rotations above/tangent to the thumb.

A ThumbAround is done as it is named. The pen travels around the thumb, behind and above A thumbaround consists of no rotations above the thumb and the only significance of a number proceding after the ThumbAround title is for how many times it travels around the thumb. The misconception of this trick is that people believe that once the pen has traveled around the thumb once, the rotations on top of the thumb are counted towards the ThumbAround trick. This is actually concidered a ThumbAround with X Taps Extended.

ThumbArounds are NOT ThumbSpins, vice versa.

Thumbspins do have one rotation around the thumb.

I think everyone know ts is not a ta, but ts 1.0 is the same as ta 1.0 in my eyes. They start the same way, and the end the same way, and if there is only one rotation.. what can the difference be?
(and if someone is going to mention side spins or full taps i'll smack him)

no

its easier to make a thumspin with no rotation around the thumb

Are you sure you are not talking about side spin or full tap? :huh:

sidespin is on the side of the thumb and it doesnt even have same final position.

fulltap is not even same push.

Using that logic, Sonic 23 is the same thing as Pass 23-12.

Wrong. TA's end with the pen point facing down and TS end with the pen point facing forward and parallel to your thumb.

:banghead:

Here is the basic answer: WRONG.

The rotation, if even done below the thumb, is not a full spin around the thumb. The whole point of a thumbspin is to spin on top of the thumb. The thumbaround is concerning the pen going around the thumb. I don't see how once could screw this up.


A little tangent to this topic:

What's next? The definition of a real backaround, between a DW backaround and a "korean" backaround?

Like this?
http://s15.invisionfree.com/UCPSB/index.php?showtopic=2791

I am going to lay out how I see it as clearly as possible. I'm pretty sure every will be able to agree on this based on the arguments I have already seen.

A thumb spin is any trick which spins on the top of the thumb. Much like a palm spin is any trick which spins on the palm. There are many different way to start each of these tricks and many different ways to catch both of these tricks but all these method are still considered the same trick.

However; A ThumbSpin in a classical sense and the ThumbSpin everyone generally refers to is started by a TA like push and caught with a TA like catch. Because this is the commonly accepted method any other push/catch combination is a variant.

Lots of tricks have variants, like a TA with an index finger push. It's still a TA but if I write TA is it generally understood that I mean with a middle finger push. If I mean anything other than the generally accepted method of preforming the trick I need to say so for people to understand me.

In conclusion. A TA and a TS 1.0 CAN be different tricks but in terms of the most widely accepted definitions of the tricks they are the same. Each can have variants but as these are not as widely used, so saying ThumbAround and Thumbspin 1.0 without any further elaboration does refer to the same trick.

Fine. Let's say the pen begins below the thumb and ends beside the thumb at T1. That isn't a complete rotation. It is three quarters of a rotation. But, do you ever notice tricks written with quarter rotations? Of course not, since where do you stop? One eighth of a rotation? One sixteenth? Clearly, this is superfluous information. Current pen spinning conventions go up to half spins, and are rounded off accordingly. As another example, let's say you roll the pen, which is perpendicular to the fingers, down the palm, to a fingerless thumbaround. Do you count the rotations the pen does while rolling? I mean, the pen is still rotating, just along a different axis. Why shouldn't it be counted? It is because it is irrelevant. For all practical purposes, there is no need for such information.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/UCPSB/index.ph...opic=2807&st=15

1st of all pass has only 0.5 rotation..
2nd, when i said they start the same I ment not only same starting position but also same initial push, further more, they also follow the same path and they are the same godamn trick.

In a ts 1.0 the pen does nothing but going around the thumb once, how can it not be a thumb around?

yea i dont get what you guys are saying I can do TS 1.0 with no rotation around thumb just on top of thumb like stickz said.

Same here, like Zombo, i can to a TA around the thumb and i can do a 1.0 TS on the knuckle of my thumb.