Just curious, but exactly what is a bust?? I've seen a lot like demon sonic bust etc. but I am not sure what it is. Any kind guy out there to explain?

Sonic bust = Sonic > IA
Demon Sonic Bust = Demon sonic > IA
Twisted Sonic = Twisted Sonic > IA
...........
...........

Ok ?
Bust = IA

twisted sonic bust is
twisted sonic > rev korean back or weis

Last time I checked twisted sonic bust was twisted sonic>IA

busts are usually just names for indexarounds instead of saying indexarounds at the end of all of them.

busts are FL..making them rev baks instead of IA

A Fingerless Indexaround does not automatically equal Bak Rev.

So busts are just another name for rev bak? I didn't know that. By the way, can any of you guys show me a video of twisted sonic bust or demon sonic bust?

Bust is not mean Reverse Bak. -_-


It started out with JUST Sonic Bust: Sonic 23 > Indexaround. see it here.

Read the kam's description in the link as why he called it Sonic Bust. Anything else is probably supposed to link an Indexaround after a trick going in the opposite direction. Twisted Sonic Bust probably works because the end of the Twisted Sonic and the beginning of the Indexaround do go in opposite directions.

At some point, people started calling Twisted Sonic > Indexaround. TinyBizzle called the combo that when I mentioned it in a chat session on UPSB. I'm sure others already unofficially called it before then.

Demon's Sonic Bust shouldn't work, since the end of the Demon's Sonic and the beginning of the Indexaround go in the same direction. It should just be a normal combo.

----
A vertical Twisted Sonic > Indexaround can be performed as a hybrid since you can cut off the second Charge motion in finishing the Twisted Sonic and going straight into the IA from the Pass Reverse. You substitute the Twisted Sonic catch with an Indexaround.

twisted sonic bust:
http://media.putfile.com/Twisted-Sonic-Bust-65

demon's sonic bust:
http://media.putfile.com/Demons-Sonic-Bust

Ok, thanks a lot guys.

Well according to an official naming commitee member what you are doing technically isn't a demon's sonic bust seeing as how officially it isn't a trick in its own it is just a combo. I don't think it would kill you to say Demon's Sonic > rev backaround. It just might not sound as cool.

A "bust" is still a combo, not a trick. According to kam, the bust objective was to smoothly combine the Sonic and Indexaround, which rotate in different directions.

Demon's Sonic Bust: nice combo, but I don't think that it should be lumped into the Bust set of tricks. I'm not sure at this point if there should even be a Bust set at all. There's nothing wrong with writing out two tricks in a combo. For some reason, these days people have an obsession with making names for combos.

demon's sonic is a hybrid of sonic 34-23 and twisted sonic 23-12, correct? twisted sonic spins the opposite way as IA hence twisted sonic bust being possible, correct? then what makes the twisted sonic part of demon's sonic any different from an actual twisted sonic other than you're fully doing the trick on one half of the spectrum?

lunasol > sketching lol.

Sketching, even though like 15 years ago, when we were all not born, kam made something up and time have changed greatly, so as far as i know.

Bust = Reverse Backaround

it has a different angle of rotation on your finger, it goes almost horizontal, rather than verticle as an IA would.

There is not a Twisted Sonic inside of Demon Sonic.

Twisted Sonic = 0.5 Charge > Pass Reverse > 0.5 Charge

Demon's Sonic = Sonic > Pass Reverse (kinda of, the pen is supposed to just bounce off the fingers rather than actually being passed)

Pass Reverse rotates in the same direction as Indexaround Reverse, so Demon's Sonic seems to me to not follow the only Bust guideline currently setup.

Charge Normal rotates in the opposite direction, so a fully complete Twisted Sonic would still work.

A Twisted Sonic where the last Charge rotation is omitted would obviously make the combo a hybrid, since the Twisted Sonic is incomplete.

--
@Donk3y:
I've not seen Sonic Bust performed a lot using a horizontal rotation around the Index. My Sonic Bust rotates vertically, but my fingers are usually straight while doing the rotation. This makes the pen rotate more at a perpendicular angle to the hand rather than a more parallel rotation one with my fingers bend in during the Sonic.

Edit: Twisted Sonic Bust, yes, but that would not automatically be called a Bak Rev to me. Most people seem to still use their fingers for the IA rather than just hand motion, which would more likely make it a Bak Rev.

then you might as well rule out the fact of a demon's sonic existing when you have 2 complete tricks involved...it rules out that it would even be considered a hybrid. unless i'm doing demon's sonic completely and totally wrong, then i believe you need to rethink there being a possibility of "demon's sonic bust"

Demon's Sonic is not a full combo. The Pass motion is not performed with the fingers passing the pen through, it just bounces with its on momentum. A Pass is defined as being held by at least two fingers throughout the trick. In Demon's Sonic, that is not true, the pen follows the Pass motio without actually being passed. It's a hybrid because an extra 1/2 rotation is tacted on without an actually trick being performed (it's a Pass motion without a complete Pass being done).

Hybrids are "combos" because they are not full combos consisting of full tricks. One or more of the tricks involved are incomplete for one reason or another.

however, the pass isn't going like a normal pass does. it goes with the flow of the sonic following the same path almost going completely parallel with the hand making it to where it's not going the same way as an IA.

if you could video yourself doing a demon's sonic then a demon's sonic > IA palmside the exact and perfect way that it should be done, it'd be greatly appreciated

It mat take a while to get a video, I don't have any camera avaiable ATM. After I finish work tomorrow, I might get something done.

If I understand what you are saying, you mean that the Pass is not rotating at the same angle to the hand as the IA. They still rotate in the same general directions, it doesn't seem to differnt enough to change the direction of either trick.

A side note on Twisted Sonic Bust. I don't know if anyone else does, but when I do a palm-down TW Sonic > IA, I automatically drop off the last Charge rotation of the TW Sonic, thus making the palm-down TW Sonic > IA a hybrid and no longer a Twisted Sonic Bust. :P
Anyway...

Edit:
Another note. I substitute the Sonic catch for an Indexaround 13-12 in a Sonic Bust, making it a hybrid all by itself. Hmm.

It is impossible to win an arguement with sketching about ps tricks he knows too much.

I don't think I do the charge motion on twisted sonic bust palm down either.

That's been disproved quite a few times actually.

As far as I know I have never seen you proven wrong. And you almost always answer to peoples questions with a nice detailed response unlike most other people. Sorry for off topic.

what i'm saying is that you can't do an IA after a demon's sonic because when you try to do the IA, the pen goes diagonal, is a little stallish going into the IA, and makes the whole "combo" look horrible.

if you watch my two vids posted on the first page, twisted sonic bust and demon's sonic bust look about the EXACT same (the whole twisted sonic bust and the end of the demon's sonic bust). unless you're taking twisted sonic bust out of the trick book definition (making eriror completely hate you :P) then demon's sonic bust is a trick.

With my last Bust comment, I'm wondering if Sonic Bust is only a one-off hybrid that does not really need a name at all.

hybrid:
Sonic 23-13 > Fingerless Indexaround 13-12

I don't think that I've ever seen Sonic Bust performed with a Sonic catch, it just doesn't make any sense. You have to drop off the Sonic catch to make a smooth transition.

alright...the whole point of me arguing with you, sketching, is to prove that demon's sonic bust does work considering you said...

however, earlier today you stated...

why would you say that it would work in another topic earlier today then come back and say it doesn't now?

i just want to hear that i'm right about this one :P(not trying to sound conceited)

He said you can call it that if you want. Not that is what it is.

in other words agreeing that it would work in our naming system proving the name to work out

So, can we come to an agreement wether a bust is a IA or a rev bak? It seems to me, that the bust at the end of the demon sonic is just an extension to make the pen go one more loop.

the name works out but why does a combo always have to be a trick?

I'm not saying that it won't end up working out or that you cannot call it that right now. From what I know of Sonic Bust, I do not believe that Demon's Sonic Bust will work. Since I am not the end all when it comes to naming combos, etc, you can still give that name to that combo. I've simply been trying to make the that I believe that it should not be called that based on known information.

After a few other things are cleared up, this topic can be added to the Naming Comm. todo list so that something official can be said.

For nuts, the Fingerless IndexAround does not equate to the BackAround Reverse. Currently, the BackAround Reverse is the subset of the Fingerless IndexAround, but not the other way round. In other words, the Fingerless IndexAround is not the BackAround Reverse. Although the last 3 sentences are saying the same things, I do hope that these repetitions do get things understood and accepted. As proven by the 2 following quotes of sketching's, you guys do need repetitions.

hmnn. . .

twisted sonic bust, the bust part has to be horizontal kinda? i always thought u could do it either way, vertically making it look like an indexaround or make it more horizontal looking

demon's sonic=hybrid so hybrid+trick=combo?

lastly, whats a reverse backaround?

o o o
is it spelled backaround or bakaround?

You can call it any way you want as long as people understand you. Rev bak is a bak except the pen goes counter clockwise over the hand.

Huh? So it's a Bak, but not a Bak? :blaugh:

The correct way to say is that the BackAround Reverse is a trick with the path and spin of the pen in the opposite direction of that in the BackAround Normal.

Alright, sorry. I should'nt have mentioned that part.