part 1:

I was just thinking over and over again before and said it multiple times, but There's some unfairness in ration of pens in trading. and some people don't realize, just trade the pen and rip people off or rip their self off.

You see, here's how it goes:
So i was in JEB and there's this guy who trades Dr. KT for ONERSVP fine on International trade.
I don't get it, yes i know this guy agreed to it, but it doesn't make sense how they get satisfied. They are being ripped off!

For example, this is how it should go:
Two RSVP fine for 1 Lakubo.
Yes in some countries, there are no RSVP, but countries like USA, there are, and $1 for 2 RSVP. In Japan, there are no RSVP. but we have Lakubo which is pricier than RSVP. One Lakubo for $1.

There are acceptable cases:
You are trading intranationally, then RSVP is really rare, and must pay high prices. But no, One Dr. KT is about $18.00!! Obviously, it wouldn't take $17.50 in international shipping, so it should be like $3! so i understand trading 3 Lakubos for 1 RSVP INTRAnationally.
But it's not acceptable trading INTERnationally, 1 Dr.KT for 2 RSVPs. Definatly not fair. It should be 3 Lakubo for 2 RSVPs. Lakubo for USA, is just as rare as RSVP in Japan. so it should be decided in price ration.
Of course, when trading Com-Ssa with korea and USA, obviously Korea money is weaker tahn USA $. but still Com-Ssa and RSVPs are rare there, and probably same price.


So this is suggestion:
DO NOT rip people off for 1 RSVP and 1 Dr.KT. Very unfair. I asked HuroniX for 2 RSVP for 1 Lakubo, and he said OK. He is the right man. You should trade fair in international. Intranational may change though.











Part2:
People like pens, and some people might not even send anything. so ALWAYS check the white list. Actually, i never traded before (planning to trade with HuroniX), and i might not have the trust, but i gonna do my best sending it.

Example:
Some people might decide to give 36 RSVP for Dr.KT (fair trade because 36 RSVP=$18 and Dr.KT=$18) what would happen if the person never send Dr.KT? that would be REALLY sad.

Now here's a case my net friend (I'm not gonna mention name) had:
So he decided to trade pen with other country. He was well trusted. Now he one time send his pen, then the pen arrived as a trade. Until now, it was pretty going good. Now the pen he send (Lakubo Jell=$4) did not arrive on the friend's house for over 3 months. Now he DEFINATLY send it. He felt something was wrong. Who's fault is that? probably the mail man, or post office. But who's responsible, the person who sends.
Exactly, he have to pay for the rip off. His trading partner got mad. So my friend send money instead, which 100% succesful. and the whole thing was solved.

So the message:
If the pen get's lost while shipping, that is the SENDer's responsibility. The person who send must pay the price. please do not bug the trading partner and beg for forgiveness. This person take the responsibility.
So don't trade unless you are 99.9% sure. even if you don't mean to, it becomes a rip-off if the pen dont reach the trading partner.

Quote from Black List:

This is completly unacceptable case, while the case above is much more complicated, but better.








BOTTOM LINE:
so PLEASE do not rip people off.

yea i always found taht funny. that japanese ppl are so willing to trade their $5 dr.grips away. oh well they agreed. why dont you post this over there and enlighten them? wouldnt that make more sense? use your head

worse case is that the other person don't send pens at all...lol

We should have tips on trading thread or something like that...you know..maybe it could be usefull..
like Pen Trading FAQs
tips and all the trade ratios...like 80 rsvps : 1/2 thaiMX

Not exactly $5, $5.45


EDIT: Sathon, how does thaiMX look like? I cant log into thai spinners...

I like this idea.. Maybe the naming comittee can come up with some way to trade so everything is fair.

Also, there should be a format that you should use to post your address.

like, for example:

Name
(optional)Apartment building
Street, town
Country
ZIP CODE

yeah but then different countries has different format like

name
apartment building
street
sub province
this one idk in english lol
province
country
zipcode

@dx
you know what do you have a proper msn ill send it to you lol

Well still, there needs to be something.

It's extremely confusing for me, trying to send to japan or something.

Updated first post because someone came up with idea about "not even receiving the pen"

Normally, I just send my address the way it should be written on the envelope, and the people do the same. Saves a lot of searching time finding which goes first.

Wow, this is the first time i was ever so serious...


On topic: Some people dont do that zepiroth, and that's one of the problem.

well tyhe problem was taht one time i couldnt get the person to give me the address in teh proper form. he jus kept on giving me the whole thing in one line.

A ) 36 RSVPs does not = 1 KT... you ahve to think about shipping, KT is heavy, but not as heavy as 36 RSVPs, to Japan that would be at least $20-25 shipping... I'd say maybe 16 RSVP = 1 KT price wise... $8 + ~15 in shipping... possibly if their sending whole pens then more because thier shipping goes up as well.

B ) Keep your postal reciept... then if the pens don't arrive you can prove that you sent them... the only time this happened to me, I resent 1/2 the original trade (we agreed upon that, as fair... since we were both losing 50% of the trade) and everything worked out.

i traded 7 rsvps and 1 vortex for 1 KT and 2 rushon. seems fair. Eburt is right about the weight issue. i had to pay 5 dollars in shipping

well, you can't really encourage ppl not to scam because people will always be greedy and want more, but you can only choose who you trade with... dont pick sum1 fishy looking and you know you can trust ppl on the white list

ask them to take a pic with the pens you asked for with a specific pose to verify

A) You said it, think about shipping. Yes it would rather be 25~30 RSVP instead.

good idea! :lol:

just wondering about part 2, maybe the person faked and said he did not recieve it. thus money can be sent and pen cannot be sent.. as he got it and lied... not sure about that thou.. just one of the many possibilities.

I think of the ratios this way, you should look at the prices. For example 1 HGG here costs 1 € while 2 RSVP cost 1 US dollar or 0.765 €. So 8 RSVPs cost 3.06 € so the trading ratio between HGGs and RSVPs shoul be 3 HGGs : 8 RSVPs, omg I just noticed I was getting ripped off al the time, I always just traded 1:1 or 2:3. But there also are some problems for example with the Dr. KT. You say it costs 18 $, 10$ of that would be the money for the tips of the Dr. Grips, but only the tips don't cost 10$ they cost like what 2$ at most.

Hmmm
Dr Grips in japan are not that expensive ... I did a trade with a Japanese an he showed me the bill for the 2 Dr grips an that was less than 5€ (730 yen ..)
That's 2.5€ for 1 Dr Grip (same price as an G2 in my country ... )
To be shure he has the pens, I always asks if he want to put in in a formation I ask and to show me the enveloppe.
But remember: If people want to rip you of they will do it ... :(
Before you trade, just talk a litle bit to the person, and if you have a bad feeling, choose someone else

If you want to trade with a relatively clearer conscience, ask for traders who have known status in the White List; i.e. I won't trade with you unless you got some +'s
Though this may present problems with people who are just starting out. Grill them until you feel like you can trust them enough to send them pens. :lol:

As for the whole ratio business, you got it more or less right, Rex. However, when you're dealing with the "intranational" trading, then you have some other issues. If someone in Japan had some RSVPs, and wanted to trade those away, what is the net value of them? Is it in USD (absolute price) or is it in terms of what he traded away to get those RSVPs (relative price)? I think it should be the latter because in a trade, there is always equal exchange; you always get your stuff back.

If I were to trade away my Rushons, I would ask for 2 RSVPs or something equal to 2 RSVPs. Not 1:1.



Just my 2 cents

I think that there should be a system.. like 1 RSVP = 1point, and HGG = 2points(because they're rarer) so, each pen that you trade has to be the same amount.

I. E. 2 RSVPs = 1 HGG.

And then, Dr.KT could be like 10-15 points, so it would take 10~15 rsvps, or like 5~7 HGGs

No. Those points are not absolute because prices are not absolute. HGGs may be rare in America, but not so in other places. Comssas are mad hard to get outside of Korea, but they're easy to find there. Proposing that kind of point system will be unfair to the people living in those countries.

:rolleyes: :teach:

For that thought about the white list thing, you can ask the guy to send first, no big deal, that's what I was told to do when i first started out.

Exactly.

And plus, having +'s will give the other person the security of knowing that you're honest enough to send when you recieve their pens.

This is the rule I go by.

"If you don't have a plus on a white list, you send first. Otherwise, we send same day."

Plus, its good to know what they spend on your pens before you decide to trade. I always ask if they think its fair when I dont know. I've gotten ripped off only once, and that was solely due to both of us being ignorant to the other country's prices.

I hate it when people are like... "I send Friday." Then they're like... "I send soon." Then they say... "I send within 1 week."

4 months later you get a bag with some poop...

That is exactly what i wanted to say

yeah but anyone could type "^.^" every other sentence and some other stuff that's nice and still be some 30 yr old druggy pedophile trying to take your pens

Or some 14 year old boy that thinks he's the smartest person in the world.

why would a 30 year old want pens...?

to insert them in his you know where

Please be on topic...This is serious problem...

I traded one v6 for a kt. Good trade to me. You have to think about rarity as well.

so? here's what:


Ok, in order to STOP these rip offs (which no one realizes so tehy say shit to me) each person MUST stop it. After one people stop, and everyone would have the will to do so, then this rip-offs would go away. now here's what:

How much did you buy it for? Now here's what i think:

Now let's say that V6 cost 100 whatever (i dunno so dont flame). And lets say taht one guy bought it for 500 wahtever. Think about it. It might be rare here, but not rare there (and no its not rare in Korea..I heard from my korean friend that they sell in normal store as well...strange...but i dont know) And let's say that RSVP is rare there.
This is an example, but Rareness doesn't matter. You are willing to trade. If Rare VS Rare then that would be equal (If 100 whatever and $1...and no, $1 is not 100 whatever, but thinking in Korea, 100 whatever can buy ONE pen there, when $1 can buy ONE pen in USA.) Now Rare vs non-Rare such as: Intranational trading. One guy in USA might have Dr.KT, and One guy in USA have millions of RSVPs. Dr.KT have price of $18, so it should be traded for RSVPs around 25-30(thinking about shipping). this is fair trade.
Now you guys, by now is thinking: WTFH? the guy who had Dr.KT bought it from Japan for MILLIONS of RSVPs. It's not fair trading in USA for same price. But NO, This is why this whole problem start. IF A PERSON THINK ABOUT STOPPING RIPOFFS, then that might help stop this ripoffs. Sure, if you traded Dr.KT from Japan for let's say, 80RSVPs. Then you got ripped off.

Unfortunatly, it's the opposite way in Japan. JAPANESE ARE THE ONES BEING RIPPED OFF. ONE RSVP for ONE DR.KT!!!??? WTFH!!! :banghead: :banghead: :angryfire:

This is what i'm talking about. Yes on the first post I wrote, IF traded Intranationally, then that's different, but it's not really so. The reason this problem happen is because one person was ripped off and felt that it was a fair trade.

WE MUST STOP THIS NOW! :teach:

This can be wrong. It all depends on what the ORIGINAL trading ratio was for that Dr.KT. Say, if he traded in 18 RSVPs for that one DR.KT (this figure is agreed by the two traders), then when he is trading the DR.KT away, he should ask for 18 RSVPs back or something equivalent.

However, this does not take separate pens into account. What if the person had to assemble the mod? What is the value of the pen now? It's hard to say then, but it should equal to about 75-100% of the original trading ratio for those individual pens. For example,

4 RSVPs - 2 KT
2 RSVPs - 2 Sailor Gel
6 RSVPs - 2 Dr. Grip
---------------------------
12 RSVPs

But again, the whole number of RSVPs versus other pens can change and should be agreed by the two traders. And always be prepared to justify your trading ratio.




As for the Japanese getting ripped off, that's their own fault. When they are trading, they should keep in mind they are trading with foreigners, not other Japanese. One DR.KT does not equal one RSVP.





Things to keep in mind:

First generation trade - a trade involving just pens, no mods. Usually a ratio is negotiated by the two traders.

Second generation trade - a trade involving pens AND/OR mods. For the mods, whatever parts were used, estimate the total value. Then it is up to the trader to decide if he wants 75-100% of the total value for that one mod. It will be more fair if the trader decides on a value less than 100% because he/she only used parts for the mod, instead of the entire pen.

Third, fourth, fifth, ... generation trade - same as second. However, the mods' value will fluctuate unless the trader keeps track of how much they traded away for that mod.

Trade - equivalent exchange

Yes exactly what i'm talking about. ORIGINAL. You said he traded in 18 RSVP for Dr.KT. That guy just ripped that japanese guy off.



And ur wrong:

8 RSVP - 2 KT
4 RSVP - 2 Sailor Gel
22 RSVP - 2 Dr. Grip
------------------------
34 RSVPs MINIMUM

IF RSVP cost $0.50

1 KT=$2.00 (in cheapest...SUPER LUCKY IF SO) (200yen)---------Usaully $2.49
1 Sailor Gel=$1.00 (100yen...Usually 100yen))
1 Dr. Grip=$5.50 (in cheapest...SUPER LUCKY IF SO) (550yen)---Usually $6.49

What you failed to realize is that I don't know the exact trading ratios for those pens as well as prices. I was using an example.

Ultimately, it's up to the traders on how much they want for the pens. If the ratio is within tolerance, then who are we to say that they're being ripped off?

But I do agree that 18 RSVPs for all of the pens necessary of a DR.KT is a rip off. But if it was already assembled, perhaps 25 pens would be good.

.. 34 RSVPs for 1 KT? Yeah right. Talk about a ripoff.

There's no way anyone would trade 34 RSVPs for ONE pen.. unless they're a total noob.

Not really. Those pens do indeed cost that much in Japan. You would have to buy roughly 34 RSVPs to equal that. Dr.KT is a very expensive pen. Retarded expensive. But a reminder, if you are indeed trading away 34 RSVPs, you better be getting the individual parts for Dr.KT unassembled.

Seriously, if you're getting ripped off, it's your own fault.
Noone is forcing you to trade, your own choice.

Sometimes I feel I'm sending too many pens in comparison to what I get. But I just shut the fuck up and trade; I probably wanted the pen/s very much and because of that it was worth it.

My point is: If you think a trade is unfair, just tell the guy you're trading with. Not too hard.

one thing about the addresses:

you're supposed to put the country the package is heading to at the bottom in CAPITAL letters.

For example, let's say i am sending a couple RSVP's to some guy in japan.
I'll put his address on the envelope like this:

Happy Japanese Guy
His Address
His Address
His Zip Code
JAPAN

i'd probably make the japan a little bigger than the rest of the words.
This keeps helps keep confusion to a minimum and increases the chances the pens will actually get to the place you send them.

I would also put my country in big capital letters under the return address to make sure it gets back to me if there are any complications

Also, don't send money. its not smart. I've seen many people, including myself, offer money as something to trade. I think it is a really bad idea. money is even easier to lose as it will probably be in a normal white envelope to save on shipping costs. It may even be illegal to ship cash (since it's property of the state) to a different country, but i'm not sure. yet, that's just my opinion. correct me if i am incorrect.

edits: removed some stuff and edited some stuff

Yeah, but some of it is hard to understand.

Take this for example. I changed the name and stuff for protection reasons.

I have no idea how to write this.. so I just kinda wrote it how I thought it would go >_>