I have train at neoback fall but I dont know if that is the right one :blink:
so can some one explain how to do it EXACTLY???

http://www.geocities.jp/thetroposphere/videos/new.wmv

there is no secret what the more vids you can and afer that : try again again again again...and again and again

the only secret is practice its not that kind of tricks that you land at the first try

Well, does Neobak Fall = Shadow Reverse Fall now? Last I checked it doesn't. The 'Neobak' in that video doesn't even spin like any of the other neobaks (12-23, 23-34, 12-34); the neobak (12-23 in theis case) travels above the starting finger (1) and enters between 2 and 3, passing under finger 2, whereas in the 'neobak' video, the pen clearly enters 12 from above the index. The path of the spin is different. And aren't tricks defined by the way they spin?

The trick in that video is nothing more than a fingerless shadow still reverse and cannot possibly be a neobackaround.

Well a Neobak Fall is 1 spin from a neobak 12, fingerless pass to 23, 1 spin of neobak 23, fingerless pass to 34, then a neobak 34-34, which is 1.5 spins.

hmm...well i think what you're describing is a neoback 12-12 -> fingerless pass 12-23...not a neoback 12-23...

yes, neoback fall and shadow reverse fall are not the same thing...because shadow reverse fall is -
shadow reverse 12-23 -> shadow reverse 23-34

and neoback fall is -

Well, if it contains any passes in it, it can't be considered a neobak fall, can it?

troposphere vid

The second combo is neobak fall. I don't see any passes in there.

Another thing, you said each neobak has only 1 spin, the other .5 coming from a fingerless pass. Which is it? Does neobak have 1.5 or 1.0 spins?

edit:
@ tokuwee15: The trick I described does not contain a pass at all, the term 'passing' was not to be taken as 'a pass', but more of a description as to how the neobak 12-23 spins. If there were a pass, it would be 1.5 spins, not 1.0...

In my definition of Neobak Fall, I meant the first neobak does 1.0 out of 1.5 spins, then a fingerless pass, then the second neoback does 1.0 out of 1.5 spins, then a fingerless pass, then a full neobak. The full neoback ends with the last half of a reverse charge.

Okay, in your description, the neobak fall contains 4.5 spins, whereas in the troposphere video I posted a few posts ago, it contains 3.5 spins (3.0 if it weren't for the Bak 1.5 34-12 and the end, which technically should be another neobak :)).

This is david weiss' video on the sonic-> neobak -> scissor spin (continuous).

By what you said, the neobak in the video is a fingerless shadow reverse still...but the guy who created the concept of the backaround calls what you call a fingerless shadow reverse still a neobak...

and also...a neoback fall ->
neobak 12-12 (0.5 spin) -> fingerless pass (0.5) -> neobak 23-23 (0.5) -> fingerless pass (0.5) -> neobak 34-34 + catch (1.0)

total 3.0 spin

Ok, I guess a fingerless pass isn't the best way to describe it. The neobak fall has 3.5 spins. The fingerless pass doesn't have a spins at all, it was just the only way I could describe it. Let me try again. You do an neobak with 1.0 out of 1.5 spins, then the pen is in 12, with 1 on bottom of the pen and 2 on top. Then you put 3 on the bottom and take 1 off and do another neoback 23-23, with 1.0 out of 1.5 spins, then you put finger 4 under the pen and take 2 off, and then do a complete neobak 34-34

Wow, how did that get turned around??? I said the 'neobak' in Leviathan's vid was a fingerless shadow still reverse... I am in full agreement with Weis' neobak (the one in that video that you so conveniently posted) and I have been arguing his neobak this whole time. Also another example is from Kam's Neobak Combo:

Neobak Combo

And the neobak fall... there are no fingerless passes; that is the neobak.

Neobak Fall=

Neobak 12 (only 1.0 out of the 1.5 rotations) > fingerless Pass 12-23 (the pen moves from 12-23 underneath the Middle finger) > Neobak 23 (only 1.0 out of the 1.5 rotations) > fingerless Pass 23-34 (the pen moves from 23-34 underneath the Ring finger) > Neobak 34

The transfer underneath the fingers is not part of the Neobak. The default Neobak stays in the same slot. Neobak 12-23, etc... travels on top of the fingers.

Edit for clarification: During the Neobak 12 and 23 in the Neobak Fall, the normal catch is substituted with the fingerless Pass transfer.

The fingerless passes would each add another 1/2 rotation, making the neobak have 1.5 spins. Therefore, it is not a pass, but the nature of the neobak continues the spin, making it "pass" under the middle finger, although this is not a true pass, and therefore cannot be named as such.

See edited post above...

Wow, okay... I didn't see it until now, but I am wrong. Lol, didn't see that coming. You are right, sketching, I don't know why I didn't see it before, but the 'pass' isn't really part of the normal neobak... (but it still cannot be considered a real pass, just 'alternate catch method', sort of). I had put a lot of thought into it and thought I had it figured out, but I had a strange feeling that I was missing something. Well done, sketching. Thank you.

It still doesn't change the fact, however, that the neobak only contains 1.0 spin... :lol:. When the neobak enters the appropriate finger slot, it stays there (unless, of course it is intentionally extended, which would make it a neobak 1.5, rather than a normal neobak, but that's an entirely unecessary step).

i keep hearing about the neobak fall, but i can't find a tut. so i was wondering if someone could graciously give me a breakdown?

neobak 12-12>FL pass>neobak 23-23>FL pass>neobak 34-34

AFAIK, the end should be in 34, same kind of catch as a normal Neobak 12 or 23.

wait a minute...i thought neobak always had same start, but just finished in different positions?

i can do the other but i wondered if they were tricks

No, a neobak can go from any finger and end at any finger. neobak 12-34, 23-34, 23-23 etc. It uses the same hand movement to bring the pen from between any 2 fingers to any other position.

For the fl pass, just lift your middle and ring finger up and let the pen continue the spin under it in the pass 12-23-34 direction.

someone wanna post a vid plz?

there's one on the trophosphere i think

http://www.geocities.jp/thetroposphere/videos/new.wmv

EDIT: hey! it ended in 12

The one on Trophosphere is NOT a neobakfall. It is some extension


The real one is on spenz.tk

wot do u tihnk about my neobak fall , because i love this combo and its really hard so give me your opinion and comments , and i know i need to speed it up, but i wanna know if there is anything else

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzt6M0W5QFo

It's smooth, but slow.

Here's what my neobak fall looks like (except for the pause near the ending)

http://flypicture.com/file/?id=r9zxkanZ

Rawr, good job. :) You can do it better, though.

this better ?? ?

i don't like speedness that much, imo smoothness is so much better, because then you can see what tricks the spinner does, as for speedness you're like wtf did he/ she do i didn't saw it, although too slow is bad too :P



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DVF_5AIv84

That is way better patte, good job.

im confused, why dont u guys do the last neobak fall with the pinky?

I catch the last neobak in the pinkybak starting position because I'm pretty sure that is how a neobak fall c/w ould continue.

Have u got tipps how to the pass 23-34 before the last neobak xD? I do the 2 first neobaks, then the pen is blocked =(

Everyone comes to that point, you hvae to do the same as with the pass 12-23. Practice.

here is a good tip to practice with.

Make sure each neobak --> fl pass is caught in 2 fingers and not in between more than 2 fingers

So this is what you would do:

Neobak 12-12 Fl pass 12-23 ((stop in normal 23 position)) Neobak 23-23 Fl pass 23-34 ((stop in normal 34 position)) --> Neobak 34-34 (catch in pinkybak starting position)

I was wondering if the neoback fall can be done properly when starting with a wessian bak? From the videos I've watched, the korean bak is used. I personally prefer to to do the wessian bak but I'm starting to think that it will not help with this combo.

Any ideas?

yay finally my neobak falls video comes to use!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zirxyL-yHnc

Watch that, I start the first back like david weis and then i cant stop myself from doing korean baks for the last 2 backaround motions

Actually I meant starting the neobak fall combo the wessian way which is having the pen spin very near the base of the index finger.

Yea, xz64 answers my question. Looks like it's possible but I think starting it the korean way seems easier.

Well, I'll try to film a more weissian neobak fall when I come back from school :)

Yes it's possible, there's a vid on cani's site but I can't find the link to his site anymore, it's probably under his profile on the UPSB.

But as xz64 said it's quite hard to control yourself to make the last 2 weissan.

Edit:erased a line