Recently there have been many arguments and much confusion over the naming of hybrid type tricks. The aim of this article is to classify and name these tricks with a unified notation as "interrupted" tricks. These are defined as follows: you do a trick, but not to completion- you "interrupt" it with another trick (or tricks). Here are some examples of ways that this is be accomplished:

1. A full trick(s) interrupts a trick before it is finished. Therefore, you have half of a trick, then a full one. In this example, a Sonic Clip 23-12 is interrupted by a Pass 13-34.
Another Example is where you interrupt a Sonic Clip 34 with a Twisted Sonic.

2. You interrupt a trick part way through, and finish it with only part of another trick. Therefore, you do no full tricks. In This example, I do half the first part of a Shadow Still 12, and interrupt it with the second half of a Korean Bak.

3. You interrupt a trick with another trick, then resume your first trick after completion of the interrupting trick. In my final example, I do the first half of a Sonic Clip 23-12, interrupt it with a Korean Bak 13 Harmonic, then complete the Sonic Clip 23-12.

4. You do a complete trick and then add a partial trick to the end. There are no known ways to accomplish this, but in allowing for it, this notation can be used if such a trick is discovered at a later time. Note that trick such as Devil's Sonics do not fall under this category as they do not have the last part of the charge motion, before the shadow spin. They would fall under category 2.



There are two ways you would notate interrupted tricks: a formal way for very specific descriptions, for tack-on games, ect, and a less formal way, thats less specific and would be used for other breakdowns.

The formal notation is as follow:

~ = This is used in place of '>' when notating a trick(s) that gets interrupted.

[p x] = The [p] stands for "push", and is placed after the first trick, to signify that this is the push used to do the trick. The x can be replaced by the fingers it starts from (T1 or 34 or whatever), if the trick is not starting from its normal starting postition.

[s x] = The [s] stands for spins. The "x" is replaced by the number of spins done in this section of the trick.

[c x] = This stands for "catch". It is done after the trick(s) that interrupts the first trick. This signifies that that is where the catch takes place. The x can be replaced by the fingers it finishes in (T1 or 34 or whatever), if the trick is not finishing in its normal end position.

{trick(s)} - This shows a trick or a sequence of tricks executed in the middle of another trick. Example:

Trick[p][s x] ~ {trick(s)} - [s x][c] - This denotes that the first trick is done, interupted in the middle of the spin part of the trick, and second trick, the one in curly braces is done completely (as denoted by the -, an ~ would represent another interruption), and then the first trick is completed.

Note that you can encapsulate an interruption of that form within another interruption. This phenomenon is called nesting. Here's an example below:

A ~ {B ~ {C - D}}}

means A starts, B starts, C - D, B ends, A ends.

If you want to say, A starts, B Starts, C - D, A ends, B ends, you would write:

A ~ B ~ C - D ~ A ~ B, because the {} cannot account for this type of form. It would have to also be written in long form if you want to make it clear that the second A is completing the first A, and the second B is completing the first B.


Examples:

Sonic Clip 23-12[p][s 1.0] ~ Reverse Pass 13-34 [s .5][c] - This is a Sonic Clip 23-12 that is interrupted by a complete Reverse Pass 13-34.

Shadow Still 12 [p] [s 1.0] ~ Korean Bak 12-12 [s .5][c] - This is the first part of a Shadow Still 12 caught after 1 spin, interrupted by the last part of a Korean Bak.

Sonic Clip 23-12 [p][s 1.0] ~ {Korean Bak Harmonic} ~ [s 1.0][c] - This is a Sonic Clip 23-12 that is interrupted by a Korean Bak Harmonic 13, and then the Sonic Clip is completed.

Sonic Clip 34-23[p][s 1.0] ~ Twisted Sonic 24-12 - This is a Sonic Clip 34-23, interrupted by a Twisted Sonic 24-12.

The Informal System would look like this:

Vid 1: Sonic Clip 23-12 ~> Reverse Pass 13-34

Vid 2: Shadow Still 12 1.0 ~ Korean Bak 12-12 .5

Vid 3: Sonic Clip 23-12 > {Korean Bak Harmonic} OR Sonic Clip 23-12 ~> Korean Bak Harmonic >~ Sonic Clip 23-12

Vid 4: Sonic Clip 34-23 ~> Twisted Sonic 24-12


NOTE: You would use "~>" in place of "~" in the shorthand version when the trick is interrupted by a complete trick.

Informal Notation Symbols:

~ = The first trick is not done to completion. The second is picked up part way through. This coresponds to the second linkage example at the beginning of the article.

~> = The first trick is not completed, but linked to a complete second trick. This coresponds to the first linkage example at the beginninf of the article.

>~ = The first trick is completed, and then a partial second trick is linked to it. This is a hypothetical notation, with no practical application currently. This coresponds to the fourth linkage example at the beginning of the article.

Rule of thumb: When deciding if a trick is executed with its push or catch, look at the symbol immediately before and after it. If it's ~, then there is no push or catch, if it's something else or there's no symbol, the push or catch exists.

Example: Sonic ~> Twisted Sonic ~ Shadow > Backaround >~ Thumbaround ~ Reverse Backaround.

Sonic: no symbol in front -- contains push, ~ symbol after -- no catch

Twisted sonic: > symbol in front -- contains push, ~ symbol after -- no catch

Shadow: ~ symbol in front -- no push, > symbol after -- contains catch

Backaround: > symbol in front -- contains push, > symbol -- contains catch (this trick is complete)

Thumbaround: ~ symbol in front -- no push, ~ symbol after -- no catch

Reverse Backaround: ~ symbol in front -- no push, no symbol after -- contains catch.

With nesting: Nesting is denoted with {}, so the {} symbols are not considered when looking for completeness of the trick. The symbols after the {} denotes if the trick is resumed to completion or not. If there's two symbols, such as ~> or >~, the first symbol is to denote the completion of the trick inside the loop, while the second symbol is for the actual trick that's interrupted by nesting.

Example: Sonic > {Twisted Sonic ~ {Shadow > {Backaround >~ Thumbaround} >~} >} > Reverse Backaround.
This is equivalent to: Sonic ~> Twisted Sonic ~ Shadow ~> Backaround >~ Thumbaround >~ Shadow ~ Twisted Sonic >~ Sonic > Reverse Backaround.

Sonic: no symbol in front -- contains push. Since it is followed by {} tricks, it means the sonic is interrupted and resumed later. If we look at the next symbol outside the outer brackets, it's >. This means the Sonic is interrupted somewhere by some trick, then resumed to completion (with catch).

Twisted Sonic: > symbol in front -- contains push, this trick is also followed by a nested sequence. If we look at the symbol after the {} of this level, it is >. This means the twisted sonic is interrupted somewhere, and resumed to completion (with catch).

Shadow: ~ symbol in front -- no push, this trick is also followed by a nested sequence. If we look at the symbol after the {} of this level, it is >~. In this case, we take the ~ for our shadow (special case with two symbols). This means the shadow is interrupted somewhere, and resumed not to completion (does not have a catch).

Backaround: > symbol in front -- contains push, > symbol after -- contains catch.

Thumbaround: ~ symbol in front -- no push, > symbol after -- contains catch.

Reverse Backaround: > symbol in front -- contains push, no symbol after -- contains catch.

Note that nesting may also be used in informal notation as well as formal notation.


So how else is this applicable? What other ways can this theory be put to use? For one, counter tricks would fall into this category. Example: A counter TA would actually be a TA ~ TA reverse. (Although the term counter would be kept as it is a commonly accepted term.) Also, the nomenclature of interrupted tricks is easily applicable to almost every other type of tricks. This could be used in order to clarify EXACTLY what a trick does.


No matter how "smooth" a combo is, its still just lots of individual tricks. Its always, trick > catch, trick > catch, ect. So Interrrupted can be used to break down the walls of catching between tricks. Hybrids such as Devils Sonic are one example of doing this, but interrupted tricks take this to the next level. A perfect example of this type of interrupted trick is the Extended TA. Its basically a TA > Shadow without a catch to disrupt the smoothness. The same, but in the other direction, is also applicable. Here's the example:

Shadow Still [p][s 1.0] ~ TA [s 1.0][c]



That is another way that this type of trick can turn into its own "style" . Eventually, maybe someone could even do an entire combo with only one catch. Here's an example of what that might look like.

Many people have had problems like this in recent months. Lots of questions that didn't used to have answers have been asked in the "What am I doing?" thread. For more examples of how this system would be used, look at this video. The new (informal) naming system would be:

Vid 1: Sonic Clip 23-12 ~> IndexAround Reverse 13-12
Vid 2:Reverse Sonic 12-23 ~> IndexAround 13-23
Vid 10: Twisted Sonic Bust 23-12 ~ PinkyAround. MISTAKE?

(The rest of the videos don't include interrupted tricks)

Please start using this notation system in the future, the Naming Commitee and the Research Department have okeyed it, and it is the official naming system from now on.


______________________________________________________________________________________________

Couple of other notes: First off, a HUGE thanks goes out to Zombo, Skatox, Mats, Eburt, and the whole rest of the Research Department for making this small idea I had a reality.

Another note is that if anyone has any trouble understand ing the "nesting" ideas put out in this article, feel free to just use the long version of notation.

And last, if anyone could translate all of this, and post it in other boards (FPSB, SweSpin, ect), please feel free to do it.

Feedback and comments are appreciated, although this system is pretty much final, and probably wont be changed, we have been working on it a LONG time.

:clap:

This is our biggest released project to date in the reasearch department, and we're very proud of it. Congratulations to start1227 for spearheading this.

We hope this new notation will put an end once and for all to all those bogus new naming for hybrid tricks and present instead a clear alternative to describe them instead of having to memorize them.

We hope to translate in as many languages as possible.

In fact, if you are interested in translating the article for another community, ask permission here or PM strat or me.

:clap: I'm glad to see this released. Good job to the Research Department on setting up a detailed system that is not too complicated.

zomg! :eek:

Great work researchers!! :D :wub:



edit: So does this mean tricks like demon sonic will be erased and replaced with.... sonic 34-23[p][s .5] ~ twisted sonic 24-12[s 1.0][c] ???

generally accepted trick names will be kept, but we hope this will stop the silly naming of new ones

use whatever suits you, as long as people know what you're talkign about.

If you start using obscure names nobody knows, then you're better off using this instead.

It's also possible you're not exeucting the hybrid trick fully as well, in which case break it down in its parts.

Can someone make some sort of a test? I think I get most of it but I can't check if I'm right.

And :clap: for the Research Department!

post a video, and your proposed breakdown. We'll check for you.

Congratulations on the new notation system, but it just seems too complicated to be used practically. I've never seen any problem with just listing two tricks separated by a slash and then adding Hybrid at the end, as long as you indicated where each trick starts and finishes.

For example: Sonic Reverse 23-24/Pass Reverse 24-12 Hybrid. This indicates that you start a reverse sonic until the pen reaches 24, and then do a pass reverse from 24 to 12.

The new system wouldn't even be necessary for more complicated tricks. Here's a more complicated hybrid that you did:

Sonic Clip 23-12 > {Korean Bak Harmonic}

To me it seems like it would be easier and more clear to notate it as:

Sonic Clip 23-13/Korean Bak Harmonic 13/Sonic Clip 13-12 Hybrid

Maybe it will be easier for some people to use the new system, particularly with very complicated hybrids, but I don't see anything wrong with the way I use to notate them.

the idea is to establish a standard. There's probably nothing wrong with your naming but it's just that, "Your naming". To make it easier, we devised a notation we know for sure that it works and we hope everybody use it.

Also your notation is too verbose.

"Sonic Clip 23-13/Korean Bak Harmonic 13/Sonic Clip 13-12 Hybrid" that's very redundant.

We could write it as Sonic Clip 23-12 ~> Korean Bak Harmonic 13 >~ Sonic Clip 23-12 (notice the ~> and >~, that makes it clear that the bak harmonic is complete, which is only implied in your notation), so basically the only difference is that you use / we use ~, and we don't write Hybrid.

Someone pointed out a mistake, I fixed it.

The mistake was:

In vid 10: the real notation would actually be Twisted Sonic 23-12 --> IndexPinkyBackAround Reverse 2.0 12-34.

no need for interrupted tricks in that notation.

no demon sonic is sonic 34-23 ~ pass reverse 23-12

Speaking of twisted sonic, notice that it is Charge ~ Pass, since the pass technically has no push; the push comes from the rotation of the charge. The charge has no catch because it never does a full rotation.

exactly, twisted sonic is the classic example of a hybrid.

thats why there are so many variations of it (warped sonic ect)....

again, these names will still stand (just like the counter tricks), but from now on, please dont try to name new tricks, if they are actually only hybrids haha :D

dang...that's the longest post i've ever seen...i'll edit this post as soon as i read it...

edit:
*phew* that took a while...i'm sure this'll be quite confusing at first, but it'll surely be beneficial in the long run
:banana:

Another short example I just filmed

EDIT: d'oh, forgot notations :D


Shadow [p][s 1.0] ~ FL Ta [p][s 1.0] ~ Shadow 12 [s 1.5] ~ FL TA [p][s 1.0][c]

OR

Shadow Still 12-12 1.0 ~> FL TA ~ Shadow ~> FL TA


(If you notice, there's only 1 catch throughout the whole 4 trick combo)

Wow.. Very complicated but much needed. With such an in-depth system of naming it will be very easy to make mistakes, might get real confusing. I don't understand it all right now (especially the nesting part) but hopefully it'll become common lingo in time.

Isn't that a Sonic Clip 23-12 ~> PassR 13-34?

And your example of the Shadow Still [p][s 1.0] ~ TA [s 1.0][c] - Isn't that just a combo: Shadow 12-T1>TA.. and why do you have a ~ before the TA, doesn't that imply that it has no push? If I see the video right, the thumb is clearly making the push for the TA.

Oh yeah... right... :clap:

it's not THAT complicated just follow my rule of thumb.

You see a ~ sign immediately in front of the trick, means no beginning (no push). You see a ~ sign immediately after the trick, means no end (no catch).

Anything else or no sign means the trick has a beginning (or a catch).

True.. it does seem a lot easier when you consider that... but as you say: if you see a ~ immediately in front of a trick, then there is no push. Well look at my above post:

Like I said, the TA clearly has a push.

fixed the error about reverse pass.

about that well.. it's pretty qualitative.

That push doesn't seem like the convention TA push, rather the momentum given by shadow still... it could go both ways I guess... altough I think the idea was to make it no push.

i find this very uselss... okay xou can write hybrids bette but i hate it... noobs will be confused about this writing system like a programming speach... i find the old/normal system totaly easy and i understand all.. wehn you dotn undesratnd.. a small vid and you know it and i think thats okay... i find this very usless.. dont do that -.-

samu

I think you don't get it. This is only for naming hybrid tricks. Usually newbs can't do hybrid tricks yet.

It will help breaking down your beloved Bonkura videos a lot easier, man. ;) Be happy!

Really good job, Strat. And of course the rest who helped with this. Enjoyed reading it, now I'm waiting for an opportunity to utilise it.

oh sure... what is easier to remember

some bunch of east devil sonic, greater god of the angels sonic, reverse mirrored tipped moonwalk cookie shadow, I-make-names-up-with-no-reason Triple Pass Bust (im making names up)

or something CLEAR like

bak ~ FL TA, Shadow 12-t1 ~> Backaround, etc...

I tihnk the noob has better chance understanding the latter than the former.

You know, back in the days, people opposed the ThumbAround, because it would confuse noob. They preferred using 360 Degrees to indicate thumbaround, Forward 1.0 to indicate thumbspin 1.0. If you used degrees or number of rotations it would change the meaning of the terms.

If you want to make it easier for noobs, why even bother with naming? Tell them "Spin the pen around the thumb once" or "Rotate the pen in circles".

The combo would work if the movement around the Thumb was only made using the momentum of the Shadow's spin, transferred around the Thumb. You would have to make no movement of the Thumb to push the pen. It's not the most practical combo to show an example of, but it could still be possible with correct Thumb positioning.

The combo, as per the video, could be changed to:
Shadow [p][s 1.0] ~ Fingerless Thumbaround [p][s 1.0][c]

OR

Shadow ~> Fingerless Thumbaround 1.0

The video looks to have some Thumb movement to help the pen for the TA, so Fingerless Thumbaround would make more sense



*sketching sets out to learn Cookie Shadow...

sketching i fixed your post you confused the formal and informal notation.

Formation notation do not use ~> or >~ symbols, because the [p][s][c] notation already gives that information.

lol, what's that??

@strat: Read through Zombo's post right above mine

Good job! Really nice sollution for this problem. But i don't fully understand nesting. I need more examples for it.

Now i need to translate this HUGE article for RPSC :( i need so mush time for it.

But what about tricks like twisted sonic bust? How i must named Twisted sonic rev > bak?

hey all :)

i'm glad to see this finally released! since i was with strat when he start this notation, i'm impressed to see the final result (especially the video on the bottom of first page... of course, spinning a bat makes everything a LOT easier. haha)

good job, hope to use some in my meager spinning.

:clap:

:vhappy:

:groupwave: :groupwave: :groupwave: :groupwave: :groupwave: :groupwave: yay all the confusion and arguing about hybrids is finally over! ide like to more about them in the future. maybe more naming for the new ones?

That...was confusing..forreal

*BUT good thing it was settled

Finally posted the french translation on FPSB -_-...A hard time to make this understandable in french.

I hope it will be as welcomed there as here it was here...

Alright, keep us updated on how well it is received. :spin:

they think it's too hard :dunno:

I don't see why, if you see a ~ in front of the trick, it doesn't have a beginning, if you see ~ after the trick, it doesn't have an ending.

It's as simple as that.

Sonic Clip -

Sonic 23-13 ~> Charge 13 >~ Sonic 13-12

right?

subjective...

you don't complete the last rotation of the charge to use it to go up.

I know some tricks with >~
Double charge: Twisted sonic >~ Warped sonic
And i can do Sonic normal >~ inverse shadow

I have some question that confuse me. This [p] and [c] (push and catch) show only beginning and endind of interupted tricks session? Or this show really push and really catch. Example:
Sonic clip 34-23 [p][s 1.0] ~> MiddleArond 24-23 [c][s 1.0]
This MA have push from pinky finger. Another example:
Inverse sonic 23-12 [p][s1.0] ~ {Inverse IndexAround 13-13} ~ [c][s 1.0]
This IA have push from ring finger.

two very good examples.

i have been working on those and more for an upcoming video....

for double charge, that notation doesnt work, since twisted sonic = charge ~ pass.

for the question I don't really understand what you mean :S never heard of spins after catch.

It can simply be:
Sonic Clip 34-23 [p][s 1.0] ~ Middlearound 24-23

You do a push using the Pinky finger, so no need to break it up in any way. This hybrid combo has you interrupting the catch of the first trick with a complete Fingeraround. A Middlearound 24-23 really isn't any different than doing a Thumbaround T2-T1. :)

It can simply be:
Inverse Sonic 23-12 [p][s 1.0] ~ Inverse Indexaround 13-13

Again, since you are interrupting the first trick with a complete second trick, there is no need to breakup the second trick.

Starting from an odd finger position does not remove the push, you just have a different push position.


BTW: when using the formal notation ([p], [s], [c]) you do not combine the tilde (~) with any arrows (< >). Just use the tilde (~) by itself. Combining the tilde with arrows is for the informal notation where you omit the [p], [s], [c].