I post this collab cause me and my Swedish penspinnerfriends rlyrly thinks it deserves to be released! Now, why shouldn't it be released? Well, the collab was very delayed due to some problems with the first swedish editor. At last, Sfsr got the mission to edit it, (and he made a great job btw) Once it was finished, Gpcs admin Robert dont want it released. He said the music was boring, editing was bad and the hole collab was boring. (Maybe he was disappointed on the spinning as the swedish oldtimers didn't participate?) So, he banned the collab and said no1 were allowed to see it, it wasn't good enough to be entitled as "official Gpc collab". Imo that was one fucked up decision of him to take. It's like Zombo saying that Ucpsb 4th wouldn't be released because he didn't like the music! Robert acted very (!) egoistical and unfair against us Swedes that had been longing for that collab in more than a month. However, all swespinners got angry like hell. Robert kinda lost all his respect amongst us.
We decided to release this collab anyways cuz it is a very good collab and to irritate the germans (of course =P)

Swespin + Gpc collab!! - Link there
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f77edtyS-4c
Edit, added youtube link.

I dont see the collab

Lol. My headphones are shot, but the spinning was really sweet. Not the craziest combos i've seen, but they were so smooth :wub:

Good job.

EDIT: OMG 1:48-2:00 sickest combo i've seen in my life

i loved the ending it went well with the song

very nice job! :bowdown:

nice ...i liked this one ;)

le0n did the best combo

but one german pen spinner is missing

<-----------

xD

Ok I saw it. Alucard's clip was pretty freakin' sweet imo

thats a shame u guyz had every right to be pissed. good thing u released anywho.
collab was great. original taste in music. :lol:

Hello to everybody.

First of all most people take my acting the wrong way.

It's nothing against any spinner or swespin itself or whatever! Be sure to read this post completely.

When I was asked if Swespin and the GPC would do a collaboration video I liked the idea, because the last official GPC video was a little way back.
I talked to David who wanted to organize the collab.

We wrote some lines to come up with the details (clip length, deadline etc...).
Already there I said that he should ensure that it gets a nice editor (and don't take me wrong now, read what I say to the editing from Sfsr first. I liked the basic editing!), because I know that if I announce a official collab to the GPC that (at least people from the GPC if not everybody who wants to get in it) would work off their asses to get in the collab and than I want them to get their efforts back through a good editing.

Again! It's not my point to say that the editing sucks or was crap or anything else what I heard some people saying!
I got flamed very bad from very many people and I'm sad about that, because it's only because some people put it down the wrong way.

When David said to me that there is not that big interest in Swespin on the collab so that only some spinners joined and that there are mostly some unknown spinners, I didn't care about that, because it's nice to see some other spinners and to give them a chance to be in a collab. And thats why we decided to do the collab anyway!

When Sfsr undertook to do the editing, I was very happy, because everyone wanted to get the collab atlong last released and it took very long already.
Again I wrote with Sfsr for some more details and we agreed in almost everything (like clip length, count of spinners etc).

And now again!
When Sfsr showed me the first version he edited, I said that It's a nice editing, but I think that we should talk about some things again.
We did so. And we agreed about changing the flags again and changing the music to get a better conclusion and give every spinner who did much effort to his clip what he deservs.

Btw: It was me who did the flags and it was me who said, that they are not good enough. So you can see that it isn't against someone of swespin or the editor Sfsr himself! Its just to end up with something little more special.

Now what was happening

I talked to Sfsr how we gonna do it and I proposed that I sit down and do better flags during he searchs for another song.
Here is the chat log:

As you can see we both decided to do so and we both was happy with this decision.

I sat down and did my part on the editing again caus we decided, too. You can see the flags there: http://www.penspinning.de/ger_fin_merged.png and there: http://www.penspinning.de/swe_fin_merged.png

Sfsr was giving some examples of what he though of and ask whether I heard of the songs and I didn't and as a reason of that I wanted him to send the songs to me. He said that he would do so.
But he didn't. He got offline and said that he would find some music later. That was the last thing I heard from him before Sunday.

So there was this agreement and than it wasn't me who break that.
On Sunday morning Sfsr said that it would be too much work to change the music.
I wasn't able to understand, because he said that he will do so and we both decided changing the music would be the best for the collab.

My point wasn't to cancel the hole collab, but to sit down some more hours to get down what we discussed and decided. I was a little disaffected because we had that agreement and now Sfsr wants to break it that aprubt? why? where is the problem to sit down and give it 2 hours of editing again? Nobody said that it has to be released on Sunday the 19. of May in 2007!
Anyway I was a little pissed off and said that we cannot release it as the official collab as it was announced to be, because I want to give it at least the same efforts to the editing as spinners from swespin and gpc spent for their clips.

I discussed that with Sfsr where I tried to point out that some spinners really worked their balls off to get into the collab. some spinners were sending me 7 clips and another one said that it took him 7 hours for that clip. I only can speak about the german spinners here, but I'm sure that there is the same effort in swespin, too and that's why I want to respect that by giving the same effort back to them.
Its not about that I don't like someone of the spinners or didn't like Sfsr or something else?! Who said that? It wasn't me!
Well I wasn't able to convince Sfsr. Maybe he didn't understand what I wrote. Well its still nothing against you Sfsr! I was happy about that we agreed in almost everything and I liked how we discussed to come up with some cool stuff. But I cant understand why Sfsr boggled these some hours of work which he already decided to do, but to start a fight where people starts to flame, freak out and get out of any argumentations.
Maybe it's not your fault Sfsr and I want to be sure that I don't want to situate it like that, because I don't know who's guilty it is and I don't want to know, because it wouldn't solve anything, but I cannot support the decision to break the agreement.


Well like I said I got (or still get) flamed very bad from many people and I will not respond to that in the same way, because I don't see any sense in flaming. Grow up and keep realistic by sticking to the facts.
It's about some hours and many people I never talked to went crazy and start flaming me? whats that? what did they tell them that they react like that? Well I think we wouldn't be able to figure it out and I'm not interested in, because there isn't a good reason for spending time on that.

Sfsr and I talked about changing the name of the collab to be able to do a GPC+Swespin like it was announced in the near future when some better organization is done.
Thats when I don't wanted it to be release as the official GPC+Swespin.
It was Sfsr idea to release the collab anyway but under another name. And I liked the idea very much because we would be able to do it better in the near future without releasing 2 gpc+swespin in a row.
The only thing I said was that he has to ask each spinner if it's okay for him to use his clip in another video than GPC+Swespin since there isn't a GPC+Swespin collab yet.

Where would have been the problem to ask everyone? I guess that most people would have agreed to use the clips and you could have release it under another name and we could have done a GPC+Swepin in the next month.

And than people freaked out and starts flaming me and went to GPC posting links to the video and saying that I wasn't talking to them and that the hole swespin community lost their respect to me. But now I ask: Is it me who act egoistically? Or is it me who wants to get each spinner to decide what happens with their clip?
Is it me who goes to the boards and post something without talking to the other side? Or is it me (and I'm sure some others, too) who simply wants to give each spinner the deserved respect with a good editing with the same efforts?
Is it me who posted the video without waiting to review the happened things and a discussion what we gonna do???

Well, you have to decide on your own!

I regret that people react with flaming and not with ideas to solve things in a way that most people would be okay with it.
Its bad for those from Swespin who didn't know any background and only heard that I said that I don't like to release the collab right now, but if you still think that it is my fault and my egoistic acting that "banned" the whole collab than you won't need to respect me. But I don't need to be respected by people that are flaming me and trying to put things down a wrong way. I will not amplify that in any response.

It's your decision, but I'm not angry about anyone of swespin right now and I would still like to do a GPC+Swespin collaboration video in the near future, but than with an improved organization.

I'm sorry for all spinners from swespin and gpc, that gave efforts to that collab, but I hope you can understand my point of view and I espacially hope for you that there will be a nicer release of your clips where you can proud to be in.
I know that at least some spinners who sent in clips for that collab agree to me.

Well that's my statement to that and I would like you to come back to a normal discussion which could solve problems and to not give it a fight or kidding around with things like in the video ;). If anyone is interested in a normal way to speak to me I'm fine with that, but I won't react on people that are flaming me or try to insult or affront me and only will redirect those to this post.

I think thats enough off-topic here and if there should be an normal discussion feel free to contact me through robert@penspinning.de.

Greetz
Robert

Ps. As a very last: I'm sorry for those german penspinners who start flaming back to swespin. Thats their decision not mine! I wont do that, caus its not the guilty of a special guy from swespin or swespin itself, like I said above.

And now to my post...

I pretty much agree with everything Robert says really, everything he says is correct, but there have been some misunderstandings. Indeed I started looking for other songs that would be suitable, but did not find anything I thought worked, while imo the song I had used worked very well. I wouldn't have minded spending another 2 hours or more to re-edit the collab either, I had a lot of time this weekend. But I was the editor, and even though it's much better to talk about choice of music and stuff before, we didn't, and Robert said he did not want to be involved in the collab too much. I took that as if I had free hands with it, and edited it with music I liked and found suitable.

When it was semi-completed on saturday I think it was, I sent him the collab and he mentioned things he wanted to see changed. The small flaws he had seen I fixed ofcourse, and (as mentioned earlier by me and Robert) I started looking for new music. Later on sunday, when I had done the things I thought were needed, I sent him the collab again, with the same music as before, and told him that this was my version, and I did not want to change the song. I'll post some short logs when I get home...


Anyways, he told me he did not want this collab to be official, since it not had the same quality as he thought collabs like GPC 1st (if I understood things right..?) had (this btw, was recieved by many swespinners as if you thought our spinning and the editing didn't meet your expectations and with no swedish "old-timers" being it. It pissed them off :/). So I asked if I could release it anyway, wich he said I could, but as a private video under another name, and after having asked all the spinners in it if it was okay. This I found pretty ridiculous, since the spinners after all had sent in clips to be released in a collab, had they not? He also said he did not want his owm combo in it if the collab was released, since he thought that would be confusing, so I mosaiked his part, wich is sad since it is a sweet combo :( I called the collab "Not a GPC + SweSpin German and Swedish Collaboration" instead, since it was not allowed to be "official" (<- I don't understand what is meant by that btw, on SweSpin anyone can make an "official" swespin collab, no need to get permission from Ceedgee), added some explaining text, and showed it on IRC for those SweSpinners and GPCers who wanted to see it (they were waiting for it to be released and I had kept them somewhat updated about what I talked to Robert about, wich resulted in Yiep and FooK wanting to talk to him). Their reaction was pretty much the same as the people who have seen it here on UCPSB, they liked the Collab and even though the music was not what they most prefered, they didn't think it interfered with the spinning. After that I had to go, and others in the channel decided to post the collab on UCPSB and GPC, while I asked Ceedgee to atleast post it on SweSpin for me.


Music is always hard, ofcourse people have different taste, heck, the only collab music I like is from the JapEn videos and the ones Yiep has edited, but I can live with that. The music doesn't make a collab bad. This was how I edited the collab, and changing the music in it b/c someone does not like this type of music would imo be wrong.

Sorry but i cannot understand, why all the swedish people are pissed off Robert but i want you to remember who made the bitchy work ?? Yes the Editor i think all the blame shall go to the old Editor, who made a fuckin bad job. I very thank you Sfsr for edit this collab so fast but that is not a reason to blame Robert for some things. He only want that the collab release as fast as its possible but we waited 1 and a half month i think and thats pretty much time to edit a collab. All german participates was pissed off, because the collab didnt release. I think its not the blame of Swespin and its not the blame of the GPC (and Robert). The blame has the old Editor (david i think is his name) and we learned that this guy is a very lazy guy :D

Im happy that you post that Sfsr! Thanks!

Well as we both said we agreed pretty much to everything, but the music.

Its the way you said: You can barrle about music in a collab always!

That was my first sentence to the music aspect when I tried to discuss about that:

That was my oppinion. Nothing else!

Well since everybody likes different music arguments should be as far as possible by objectiv. And I tried to argue that the music needs more substantance and since there where no arguments against that and Sfsr was saying that he is searching for other songs it was for my like Sfsr was saying "okay :] I will search for other music and we can change it"

I would have been open minded or better I am open minded for other arguments about the music.
For me it seems to be no problem for Sfsr to change the music if we find a good song, because he said "Sfsr: Okay :]"
I know it takes some work and its bad to change the music, but I thought we agreed about that.
And than I was very suprised when he came online and said that he will not change it.

Thats maybe the biggest thing you got wrong.
I did never expect that something is done like in GPCs 1st.
Here is the log for what I said with GPC 1st as an example for an interesting intro that you wont see any day:

And that was a respionse to that Sfsr didn't find hes editing skill that good, but I wanted to argue with that, that its very good, because its not overloaded and so on. Thats what he wrote before:

I never compared the collab to GPCs 1st or anything. And I never said that I dont like swespin or the clips from swespin. They are all well done and like I said I like seeing new people in collabs and give them a chance to show their skills.
If anybody felt that it was meant like that, I feel sorry for it, but it was never meant like that and maybe turns in something like that when it was copy & pasted.

Because Sfsr and me are mainly the same way of all those things I only want to point out again why I was saying that I dont want to be in that collab. It didn't had anything to do with the basic collab or the basic editing or with swespin or a spinner.
It was a misunderstanding between Sfsr an me when we tried to solve the problem that he supprised me with his decision to dont change the music. (I know you thought of that in a different way, but thats were the misunderstanding takes place (see above). )


We were discussing about the efforts to do caus he didn't want to change the music because of too much work. But, as I wrote, I think that it is worth the work - the editing should get the same efforts as the spinners used to make their clips (swedish and german!).
And we came up with the idea of another collab thats not announced as the gpc+swespin so that the music not has to be changed and 1. the collab can be release and 2. its okay to everybody. The basic idea was from Sfsr to change the name and I agreed to that.

And as you can imagine I was already very pissed off, because he broke the agreement I thought we had without any argumentation. Since your last post Sfsr I know that I misunderstand you, caus it wasn't your way to really change the music. You simply should have point that out and argue for it. Than I wouldn't have got you wrong, but I thought we had that agreement.

Anyway than he wanted to simply release it under another name and I said that he will have to ask each spinner if its okay for them.
He didn't want to.(maybe I got it wrong.. but I dont know) He was not responding to that, but only saying that he will simply release it under another name.
And thats where I wrote:
"Robert: well you will have to ask the spinners who sendet the clip to use them in another collab than gpc+swespin. And at least it'S me who does not want to be in it, caus its confusing"
My point was, that if he don't ask each spinner what should happen with their combo, I dont want to be in it, because its respectless to the spinners. They have to be informed about whats happening to their clips if there is something that changes.
I never meant that I'm out of the collab or anything. Thats because of a misunderstanding again.
It wasn't meant as that I dont want to be in the gpc+swespin collab or in any collab, but that I won't support acting without permission of each spinner.
I hope you can follow me. I feel sorry for that, but its not my fault. Its not Sfsrs fault and of course its not the fault of any spinner or someone else! (!) Its a misunderstanding because of too slight communication or maybe because of the English language that we both are not able to speak perfect and we got the things the wrong way.

I'm now able to understand why people freak off. i didn't know that they understand that I dont care for swedish spinners or that I wanted to do Sfsr to do something like GPCs 1st. Its understandable if you get it that way, that you feel the way you feel or hopefully felt. But I never meant something like that! i hope you can figure out how things went wrong during the misunderstandings between Sfsr and me.

So I hope it's mainly clear now and I thinkg we could discuss about that for some hours.... Well I think we should try to get the hole situation back on the floor which isn't that hard since we know what we (Sfsr and me) were thinking.

I talked to Ceedgee for about 2 hours and we agreed that there shouldn't be and that there isn't a fight between gpc and swespin because of that. We have to care for another.

The question was now what we're going to do.
He asked me, that if I'm okay with not changing the music that we should make it official.
My response to that was this:

Well, since Ceedgee told me that alot of swespinners don't want to make another GPC collab, which i btw can understand if they got it the way Sfsr described, it's not clear what is going to happen.

But I'm sure that if Ceedgee stays factual and nice like he is (and im sure he will stay that way) and all spinners (Swedish and Germans!) get their emotions under control again when they noticed that it wasn't my way to say something bad about swespin like I explained above and that it hopefully won't be meant by the swedish spinners like that what it looks like yesterday, that we will find a solution for it, so that we all can be at least be a little bit proud of the work that were done by everyone.

Robert

~Fixed the quote tags.

When you give the job to an editor the editor shall be responsible for how the collab is made. It was Sfsrs job to choose the song, to edit the movie. You had nothing to do with that Robert. I understood Sfsr when he broke your agreement. Why change the whole movie just cuz of ONE man dont like it. It would be idiotic as the editing rly owned. You never had the rights to make this collab unofficial! Just get that. That was however what you tried to do and that was what we reacted so hard on.
It's DEFINATELY not your call to ban a collab just because it didn't meet your own expectations.

So, this should be the reason? You aint felt like you respected the spinners that had worked hard for their clips if you allowed their combos to be in such collab?
That doesn't make sense. I sat in nearly 2 hours to record my clip and I had been waiting like hell for this collab, then some admin comes saying, "No no I dont like it, not good enough to be Swespin + Gpc collab". Don't you see how that sounds?

Since I have tons of homework I've only got time for a quick note in this argue.

Obviously Sfsr does exactly like me while editing. He fits the clips and the texts to the music. Having to change the music in a collab that is editied this way would not reslut in 2-3 hours of work, but having to redo the whole editing.

And besides, now this just me my artistic personality talking, but you can't force a song to fit in a collab. I need to watch the clips over and over again, to get the feeling of the rythm, and then go trough almost my whole musical library in hope of finding a song. Often I don't and the collab will have to wait until I do. If I know Sfsr right, this is something similar what he goes trough when planning the editing.

And a quick notice, since Sfsr and I have somewhat similar taste in music, I would probally choose that song aswell.

I'll try explaing my behavour from yesterday when I find the time, but as I said, got way to much to do today.

Hmm, I love controversy!

About the collab though

Stand out combos I loved:

nomed
manok
xhamor

my video-quality got busted -_- oh well.. guess ive just took the wrong format :doh:
anyway my combo wasnt nice, so thats ok ;P good job with the collab, its not outragesly awesome but its ok ;]

i only read the first lik three big posts since i got lazy. but jus my 2cents. i really respect robert as a person. he is definitely a kam figure to the germans and is usually relaxed and reasonable. i jus cant see him pulling retarded shit. he jus wants the best results.

Sorry but it inst only a Swespin colab isnt it? So i think the GPC can change something. So i think he can make it unofficial (the GPC clips if he want ) because that are clips from the GPC arent they? So he can cancel the GPC clips so dont talk that wothout thinking about ..
So i think Swespin cant decide what happen to GPC clips...

Well, but the thing is, he cant just ban the clips, they were made for a collab we all were waiting for. Imo, that's unfair to Swespin. What if you edited, and one day before the release all Swespinners didn't want to participate anymore. Dont think you would get to pleased with that situation =) And if a german edited it I dont think Swespin admin would have made any changes on the editors work, cuz that's not grateful against the editor.
Maybe it's time to drop this "war". Collab is at last released, and it weren't too pitty heh?

exactly :] a fight doesn't make sense here and the project is over, collab is released. ;] so letz just stop arguing about it. :spin:

mah mah, it's just a misunderstanding,

let's just move on and make more collabs!

I am not very with this collab sorry. I took a to long time for this. The Quality isnt that good and some other things werent my thing.

But im still angry that my camcorder didnt work so i couldnt make a good video for this collab.

well
To be honest
I think this vid is a little boring.
And most combos are a little simple.