so yea, just to re-state what i said in the other thread, inside of one week, ill have ur combo filmed....

(dont take this as an insult or anything, you are amazing and i love you. Im just tryin to say that you're making me really hard).

why do i have a feeling this will be closed sometime in the near future.

oh and bojo no hard feelings. im trying to help you see why you keep losing battles. you have the skills to do it, but you are neglecting a certain side of pen spinning.

hey Taro, did the 000 do a cont midbak 1.5? cuz I dont see it....

He made no relation to the 000.

ok then whats the point of saying cont midbak 1.5 is harder than palmspins? Bojo, you're only stating that your combo is more difficult than the 000 right? So I have no idea why FS would even bring up cont midbak 1.5 in this subject. Kinda useless really.

im using it as a comparison.

the 000 has some hard linkages towards the end with the clip charge passes + wipers on the end of the pen. maybe not as hard as bojo's palmspins, but he did have more content in the rest of the video lik a smooth bakfall(as much as i hate them) and some hybrids.

but the problem is that since those tricks are used more, and more ppl put the practice into them, they arent seen as hard. in addition, more ppl put practice into charge passes which serves as a stepping stone to those tricks. so you wont be starting from scratch.

very few ppl put the effort into even beginning to learn the palmspin, so it is seen as a harder trick.

again im not saying bojo's combo is easy. heck no its not. but it isnt as impossible as he portrays it to be. sry for any confusion. no more mention of cont midbaks.....

uhh yea you're gonna have to use hybrid notation when talking with me, cuz I have no idea what you're talking about :dunno: I don't even know what a charge pass is.

So I guess you agree with the assessment of judge 1 and 2. More difficult, Less content ("variety"). Because your initial post seemed against it.

So fallen, why do I have to learn what other people are doing, add in what other people are doing, do what ever the fuck other people are doing? Why can't I create my own style, make palm spins in combos, and keep my sense of creativity? Why the fuck must I be like you and copy every single thing everyone else does?

he's not saying that u need to do what everyone else does, but it's still going to be compared to what everyone else does. just because no one DOES palmspins, doesnt mean no one CAN.

(sorry if my analysis was wrong FS)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

jus for sanity's sake i wont respond to your attack on me.

all i have to say is that maybe you could try to learn from your last three ES losses.

meh, let's keep this thread to what it was made for please...


theres a spot in the spammers bin just for this kinda conversation.

You are about to lose. 6 hours.

Hi
sorry to disturb this nice topic
I have tried to copy the combo who follow your sense of creativity as you said.
Have never done rev palmspin before and as I belong to new style if I follow UCPSB's definition, I have shot the combo with F3000 so as to have a part of me into the old style.

I shot 2 combos in 10 minutes because it's here 3 AM in France so I really want to sleep. But I'm sure you don't care about that so what I obtain is 2 combos, first one: the rev palmspin is bad.. As I've told you it's pretty hard (with a f3000)to do in 10 minutes a trick you never done before.

2nd combo is better but I've added a rev charge 1T and this trick may belong to new style so you will surely say that this combo is lame.

Anyway, I post it just for the pleasure. It was only 10 minutes of my life, apparently you spent way more time to have almost the same rendering...

Click here to watch fratleym-copy-bojos-incredibly-creative-combo

pretty cool stuff, good job frat :metal:

It's not only about doing his combo. It's also being able to pull it off with comparable smoothness. You moved your hand a lot just to get the palm spin going, so much so that your hand almost went off the screen. The pen also got caught up a bit and interrupted your combo. His point wasn't only about creativity, but also about the difficulty of performing his combo smoothly. What looks like something easy can actually be very hard when you attempt it yourself.

Btw, nobody ever once said that his combo was "incredibly creative". It's just more memorable than stuff that's been filmed lately. Are you more likely to remember 90% of the other similar combos or this one?

Frat, good job for 10 minutes... with a bit of work, you could certainly do this very nicely. But yeah, Firebird also has a good point...

well after that, mine seems horrible lol.... but i said i'd do it, so here it is...


its important to remember though, that this is NO WHERE NEAR my style of spinning, and that i filmed it in like 7 minutes or something (i completely forgot about it untill bojo posted lol) .... and that i suck nuts compared to him, but whatever, here it is.

http://strat1227spenarchive.googlepages.com/bojocopy.wmv

EDIT: second one doesnt suck as bad as first.

Your "palmspin" really sucks... its more like a TS... I don't mean to flame, but that looks pretty crappy compared to what rookee did. Its just not even close in smoothness.

I also hate your google pages upload, but that is unrelted...

I guess you did do it so congats, but maybe you'll realize that what he did was an accomplishment to be proud of.

I don't really mean to be nitpicky frat, but you didn't start in the inverse i-sonic position and you did a korean bak, not a weisan one. But it was good for 10 minutes.

Same thing for strat.

yea eburt i know, but i guess i was just trying to show that the combo wasnt "difficult", cuz i can do it (even if unsmooth), whereas i couldnt do 000's.

so although bojo had smoothness and creativity on him, 000 had everything else...


i think that was my point anyway, ive forgotten by now...


EDIT: oh yea lol, my palmspin regulars suck bad, even compared to my already crappy palmspin revs...

yeah Strat, but you have to consider that, as Firebird pointed out, a lot of the difficulty comes from having to do it so smoothly. Sure you could argue that its unfair to give the points in two categories, but I certainly believe that they overlap in this case (and some others as well).

I'm surprised that you are that fair with me . thx about it.
for the first trick, it was quote"devil sonic in a thing out of I position" how can I break that.. On the vid, the quality was crappy and to me it was more a devil's around and that's pretty what I've done. Sorry I wasn't about this trick.

For the rev palmspin as I said, it's pretty difficult to do a trick you never did before, I think that Bojo has trained well for this trick, no doubt about it.

But there's something I wante to pointed tou. you talked about difficulty but difficulty is relative to everyone. If Bojo did that well his combo as you said, he trained a lot to do it so. But why 000 has not trained a lot?

I mean, Bojo has trained for a trick because in my sense, the only difficult trick was to put the rev palmspin correctly. But you know,to have this style 000 may has worked a lot too. And I really wanted Bojo to try to imitate the 000's combo. I'm sure it's completely impossible for him and way too difficult. So difficulty's definition must be used with wiseness otherwise it's unfair for the other, that's all I wanted to say.

Another thing is for the "remember" stuff. Excuse me but I have copied the Eriror's combo from the phase 1 of the final and it was a long combo. It was hard to manage, it takes me 2 hours to copy it... Even if the result is not incredible, it's pretty decent anyway.

What I mean is that, for me, but it's a personnal opinion, a combo has a beginning, a middle and a end. That's how I remember it, I copied so much combos and this one was really the easiest to remember tht's for sure, but when I copied the cloud Traveler's one, I was way more proud of me...

:rant:

WHY THE FUCK SHOULD PEOPLE HAVE TO COPY OTHER PEOPLES STYLES



xD I love you all really, especially you frat,

Also, i personally cant think of Eriror's WT combo's, actually the only thing i remember is the i-sonic and turning on the light.

But i could guess.

Twisted sonic? Bakaround?

Not being harsh to Eri (I love you too) but this is why Rookee's combo = more memorable. I see a Korean blur and i think "Well fuck it, ill never understand what that was."

Please ignore everything about this post you didnt understand, even if that means totally ignoring it.

Edit: - Nice try Frat and Strat (Lol rhyme?). <3

Haha. I guess I agree that some combos can be very generic, but a lot of the better spinners who spin "korean style" in your opinion actually have very unique tricks that you need to look closely at. I think Eriror and the majority of spinners that won consistently in the WT are very unique and don't fit your definition of "generic korean." Saying "fuck it it's korean style" without looking just makes you akin to a regular non-spinner who's impressed by sonic harmonic. Sometimes you do have to look closely at the tricks to appreciate the difficulty of it..



>.>
Sometimes though, i think combos can get repetitive. I think KTH's final combo was super-difficult but tricks he pulled like the aerials and midbacks that were good interesting eyecatchers were already used up in his previous videos, so his combo seemed too similar to previous ones -.-"

the answer is very simple.

"Korean style" combos are not less memorable than "UPSB style" combos.

The only reason you think they're less memorable is because there's a lot more videos of that style than of UPSB style!!!

If you want "korean style" combos to be less repetitive, you simply have to make less videos.

Like I said before, PS is a fast-moving sport and you have to produce a lot of videos nowadays, so maybe you don't the time to completely design every combo you do from scratch. In fact, Eriror confessed that most of his videos are pure freestyle with a little bit of planning.

In the old days, there was no such pressure, you can film whenever you want and collabs / battles were rare. So you can take your time and WRITE DOWN the combo you want then practice it.

In fact, I still encourage this method of designing combos, because you analyse every trick and ask yourself: "What is the meaning of this trick? Why did I include it in the combo? Can I justify my choice?".

If you can't answer those questions, then you MUST remove that trick or replace it.

They are less memorable for that reason too. It's not an illusion. The mere number isn't the problem, it's this plethora combined with the fact that most of the videos look similar. Think about all the movies that have been released in theatres to date. There are tons and tons, yet some movies still have the ability to arouse interest, while the ones that flop are those that use a cliche plot that was worn out ages ago.

The problem, like you mentioned, is that PSers don't carefully plan out their combos. They are too indiscriminate with their trick selection. They need to take time to earnestly select which tricks they need to excise and which tricks they need to leave in. To do this, they need to consider the significance of each trick and view it in relation to the whole combo, not just to the immediate tricks before and after it.

Like I said before, too many videos has two effects.

The first effect is that you can't remember as many videos.

The second indirect effect is:

too many videos -> each spinner pressured to record many videos -> don't take as much time to plan their combo -> combos by that spinner all look similar.

So it STILL boils down to too many videos.

I was referring to this. We don't only think they're less memorable for this reason; they are less memorable for this reason. Where we disagree is the source of the similarity.

You say that members felt pressured to release more videos. I personally think that you should never feel pressured to do anything based on how others act. Do you really lack that much self-control, self-volition, and the ability to make clear-headed choices? If not, and you're as mindlessly 'assimilated' as a remote-controlled robot, you may as well get down on your knees and PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE to the Koreans.

I see it more as the fact that spinners fell into love with this "collaboration phase" after UPSB closed and UCPSB 1 opened. There were nothing but collabs and more collabs. Usually when you're feeling pressured to do something, you don't enjoy it or love it because it isn't entirely or even partially your own choice. But these spinners seemed to relish putting out videos and making collabs. So I have difficulty seeing the manifestation of any peer pressure. I'm not saying it didn't exist, I'm just saying that it only had a minor influence because people were willing to be led by the hand instead of bothering to think for themselves and fighting for their individuality as a spinner.

yes I did say they feel pressure. To gain international recognition, you need to release a lot of videos to show your talent. And to show that you're consistent, you must keep releasing videos on a regular basis or ppl forget about you.

O RLY? I'd like to hear what others think about this, whether they felt they had to prove their consistency by showcasing their skills, possibly even on an international level. Because this surely wasn't the atmosphere at UPSB.

well maybe not here, cuz we don't have many spinners of renown, but in other, more competitive boards it is the case.

And even if ppl are not pressured to film videos, they still tend to join a lot of events and end up having to improvise videos for them. Or maybe they just never though about taking the time to really design each one.

Yeah, I started making a lot of videos to prove myself and keep a constant renown. Of course, this isn't a good idea, but I'm too used to joining a lot of videos...

Romain HXC release a vid for six months and he 's still considered since the beginning as one of the most talented spinners...

that's because he has achieved "cult" status, like kam or nhk_9.

Well, to help you out here, I'll be the first polled.

I have put out... 1 video(?). I have gotten a world better than I was a year ago, and no, I don't feel the need to put out combos all the time to show off my skills. Truth is, if I put out a hundred mediocre combos in a years time, or a single, mind blowing, "I've never seen any of this before" video in one years time, what would people like more? What would show off my talent more?

To be perfectly honest, I'm excited to show everyone here how I spin, but its not worth it if my style isn't yet perfected and ready to present. Its been a year, and who knows? It might be another until I'll be releasing videos.

hey Joshua I'm not saying you're wrong in your thinking, I'm just saying most ppl think they can achieve greater reputation by participating in every possible events, and then get stuck and end up doing less refined videos, which could still be good, but not as good as if you took the time to do it properly.

I think that was one of the reasons why I started that Paired Collab; to teach ppl how to properly design good combos.

and

are trade-offs.

Unless there's someone out there who can continuously churn out well-designed combos. :ssst:

Bonkura?

so thats why I'm saying people should ONLY film videos if they know what they're doing.