Yeah yeah, a lot of you including me have said UCPSB is nothing like UPSB was. Now back up your reasons.

1. Not enough people just here to chill. Everyone that joins this forum is more like "Oh shit I gotta learn these tricks fast! FILM VIDEO FILM VIDEO FOR COLLAB!". Back in UPSB there were so many "active" people just posting for the hell of it. For example: LinkinStickz, Flip(The girl), addict(girl), FB(still here), 256(I think that was his name). Anyways, I don't think this could be changed, but I really want to see more people not so tense about PS, and just chill, It'd be rad.

2. Lack of creativity. Back in UPSB, everyone was learning new shit TOGETHER. Collaborations were something we did for big events, and almost the whole forum was always included. It just isn't anything new anymore, when everyone makes a collab every week.

3. Lack of intelligence. Sorry, but the IQ has dropped since UPSB. We could actually have real conversations about life back then, now everyone is just spamming. Sure, back then I thought everything was spam. But hell, look at this forum.

4. Everyone is so fuckin' tense here. Loosen the fuck up, and just let life carry you. It's not even like PS is your life. Just stop caring what people say about you, hell they might be joking. But if you really do get angry because you weren't feeling good a certain night, just calm down, tell them to stop. We will listen.

Anyways. I have a lot more, but I'll leave the rest to anyone else.

Um...



1. Okay i know what ur sayin'. but the problem is that no one can do anything 'bout it man.

2. Well what does that do with creativity? Well you are saying not to make collab every week?

3. Yea, well we get serious sometimes, not to offend Mats (Peace) but his stuff about rape and stuff. Of course we get serious when we need so. Plus, when things start talking 'bout real stuff, somehow everything leads to...sex.

4. Yea, but maybe joking still offend people.

I agree on all counts LB.

Collabs used to be huge events showcasing the very best, now they are just spammed everywhere :( It would be nice to see the older style of collab brought back, I would rather see 1 collab/month that's awesome than 1/week that is spammed.

I guess intellegence drops as average age goes down? We could do with some older PSers if anyone knows any, to bring the average IQ back up :)

I'd like to hear what the lot more are LB?

Maybe stuff like when people used to call each other out, and it was serious stuff, that was cool :)
There are also no 'legends' here anymore (except Zombo). I remember days when NHK, Kam, Tohlz, Zombo, and to an extent Phya, LB and such were way up above everyone else. We lack the legends now, this board lacks the respect.

FB, LB and Kelvin, why are you guys not wreckin it up like on UPSB?

I think it was cool that people had to wait to access all areas. It stopped people mindlessly spamming the place up in some areas.

I never was on UPSB, but the sole (or at least the most important...) reason why I think it was better there, from what I have read, is all the new ideas posted and figured out. I want more of that here :/

I think No. 2 is the biggest one for me. At UPSP, the forum had a general spirit of innovation. People wanted to figure out new things. Here, everyone just wants to the same things that everyone else is doing.

Hard to know what to attribute this to. But if I had to guess, they'd include:

Simultaneous fallout of too many "PS addicts" - new people had to more-or-less pick up the art by themselves rather than being introduced to it the way UPSB would have done.

Loss of the original innovators (Kam, Tohlz, NHK...) - when they started, innovation was the only way to improving at PS. Their influence inspired a lot of innovation.

Too many collabs - Back in the day, a collab was something special. It was a place to see new combos, new tricks, new ideas. It's no secret that people try to imitate what they see in videos. Now we have so many collabs that they all are exactly the same. We now have a generation of spinners that all spin exactly the same.

The influence of the Koreans - I'm not a racist or a nationalist, but Pendolsa isn't exactly known for its spirit of innovation anymore.

Volume of PS material available - In the old days, PS was all innovation. Now there are enough tricks and combos that one could easily spend all their time learning and none of it innovating.

All that said, I'm still holding out hope that someday we'll be able to get back to the old UPSB spirit of innovation.

didn't have time to complete my research articles, will do soon hopefully.

also UPSB had some bad points, like there was too many newbs asking the same damn questions on the same 4 fundamentals. The fundamentals section is rarely used on UCPSB, which is GOOD.

5. Battle Zone simply does not work anymore. People vote on popularity, and style rather than skill and creativity. The voting system doesn't work, and if it stays like this, it never will work.

Well hell they sure act like it.


1.So you want more people to not spin and post in the spammer's bin and act like you? I RAPE MONKEYS I AM A NIGGA?
Yeah we could definately use more of that....

2. It seems to me like this board is mainly composed of newer spinners seems at least those are the only ones that really post, and before you can start creating your own tricks you have to know some other ones so that you have something to build off of.

3. I RAPE MONKEYS
Am I smart enough for you?

4. Pretty much agreed


5. I think the battle zone does work, people have just shifted thier views and now seem to vote towards certain styles now and seem to look for different things besides only creativity like smoothness speed and variation.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CB1uYsNm5sI
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x27da0_an...-video_creation
http://www.dailymotion.com/pouetah/angmara...amyon2_creation

Things change you have to learn to adapt or you will fail. You need to learn to let go of the past... You are never going to bring it back as hard as you try why don't you just remember the good times and move on? Like you said it is just pen-spinning it isn't your life so who really gives a fuck about a forum?
If UPSB ever opens it will probably be just the same as this, all the same people will be there what will be so different about that?

1. No, I want people to just be spectators of the art. That is all, just people that enjoy the art, but do not really want to spin. More social people is basically what I am aiming for, more people, less like you. Actually killing a few Scott Shitputis's might help our community.

2. Well, I guess you're new too then.

3. Read the title of this thread please. For all I know, you've never been on UPSB, and therefore you have no reason to be speaking.

4. Thank you.

1. There are a lot of spectators of the art, just none that are really interested enough to come to a forum and start posting on it. The reason people come here is to learn there are plenty of other forums that can be used for social purposes.

I don't really understand what you mean when you say by killing a few of me would help, I don't think that I really negatively contribute that often...


3. I was Ed Sect Mobile :B

1. ppl envy the pros so they practice to get up to their lvl -> new pros w/ possibly new ideas which can be great

2. well it's a little harder now with a lot of tricks already invented and linkages done already

3. it's the ppl who join that make up the forum so how do you change that?

5. its only because your videos aren't voted for, just present them in the solo vids if you think no1 votes intelligently

You forgot one.

4. Notice: AZN member limit has been exceeded. Excommunication required.

1. "active" people just posting for the hell of it- this doesn't necessarily mean everything is posted in the off-topic/spammers' bin. There were meaningful PS discussions as well. (physics behind pen spinning, and other shit)

2. I wouldn't comment too much. But yeah, there are really too many collabs now, I don't even know which ones to look out for. In the past, I used to download all the collabs/videos that were available because most of them are different in some aspects.

4. Sorry, I would have to disagree. I don't care whether PS/UCPSB/the internet is your life or not, but being a random anonymous poster on the internet doesn't give you the rights to post offensive/harassing comments whenever you want. For those that are targeted, come on, it's just the internet, not everything has to be taken seriously.

5. Battle Zone: previously (meaning in UPSB), there were criteria for battles, like aerial, stalls, and people vote according to the creativity and variety present in the video. Now, it's more like: let's battle, any random shit, and people vote videos that are more visually appealing. This problem is not difficult to overcome. Just try to make sure that battles come with acceptably challenging criteria/restriction. But that's for the Battle people to consider.

Wait, this thread was to talk about what you thought UCPSB was missing, not talk about what I think UCPSB is missing.

The first and fourth points are sort of the same..

The creativity problem just cannot be solved.

This is merely due to the fact that we are in a different age of pen spinning now. it may sound a bit corny, but pen spinning just is not as the same as it was back in UPSB times.

Back when UPSB was the english pen spinning forum, PS was relatively underdeveloped, not a lot of minicombos were devised yet, and complicated hybrids were non existent. The number of developed spinners (good pen spinners) were countable by hands back then as well.

one would come into UPSB, learn all the tricks that were popular back then (them being mostly the basics, such as shadows, sonics, tw sonics, backarounds etc.) then after that, having nothing to follow, being to make up their owns tricks. It is at this point i acknowledge the creativity that was expressed at this time.

However, UCPSB'S age is set two years later, and the situation most penspinners are in is completely different. When a person joins UCPSB, they are welcomed into a world full of very developed pen spinners from all around the world (such as korea, japan) and be motivated to be like them. However, unlike UPSB's spinners, these spinners were more dedicated in expansion of already known tricks, which made their tricks difficulty level really high.

What happens is, UCPSB is forced into thinking that their skill level is "futile" and there is a "average spinner"/"pro spinner" line that they all strive to become better, which makes everybody learn faster, and end up learning alot of the same things that would make them a "spinner" (backaround fall is a shining example.)

I think it is unfair to compare the two, as you are basically comparing oranges and apples. We live in different times, so naturally, the board will be very different whether we like it or not.

As for the criticism on PDS's creativity, I would like to defend PDS a little bit

You guys define korean style as "spammy" which is (at least how I comprehend it), using minicombos that have been used dozens of times before. Well i'd like to say right now, that the majority of PDS members just don't do this. In fact, your definition of "korean style" should be in combos such as these

video 1
video 2
video 3
video 4

These combos, from my experience are poorly thought out combos, as they clearly are overused combos (midbaks, simple rev tw sonic hybrids, etc.) but the tricks in there are usually hard to execute, which is why one would film them. These combos are usually very hard.

Now you guys are just discrediting koreans when you say they spam. videos such as

shout
pentaenge
Sangkm 13th

sure, the spinners may use the same minicombo over and over agian (it is obvious in shout's clips) but these combos are unique to him, as we know he made them up. (sort of how LB uses his inverse isonics).

As for saying the spinning in Sangkm 13th (being a recent video of PDS and a good example of how they are now) was spammy...is just being unfair in my humble opinion. Sure there was one or two, but most of the combos at least introduce something new, maybe not trick-wise, but definitely linking-wise. Of course, there is always the shitty combo here and there, but stereotyping PDS as a whole is unfair IMHO.

I'm off topic, but i just wanted to let that out.

As for the tension on the board, it is merely due to the fact that the "anti korean" movement has managed to put UCPSB in a very awkward state, as friendships and preferences coincide. (such as friend A likes koreans, friend B hates koreans, person C, being a friend of both A and B, is left in a awkward position.) Of course, this is show on a much lrager scale, with groups of people rather than just single relationships.

This awkwardness has made certain people sort of like...land mines. Post something one does not agree about and BOOM (/start chain reaction). Flameware/hate thread is created. Nobody likes being in those situations, so people around here post extremely carefully and not anger the wrong person.

As for judging...

I'll say it right now, creativity =/= skill. In fact, their differences are usually want gets people into arguments in the battlezone. Just as how creativity is often overlooked, many people also overlook the difficulty of the combo. I say the board is split pretty evenly at this point. as for popularity contests...I would definitely have to agree. Those just have to end, because it makes UCPSB's opinions more of like a joke.

Collab problem

Hmm, i'm pretty sure this was solved, at lteast n our behalf. Like honestly, UCPSB does collabs basically by the month, or two collabs per month. Most of our edited videos get stuffed into the "private videos section". The only reason we are seeing so many collabs now compared to UPSB, is because there were not that many pen spinning boards back then. Again, cannot be helped.


k, sorry for the long post. there are probably tons of grammar mistakes, but I hope you guys get my point. Nothing here is meant to be hostile or be taken as a flame.

EDIT- sorry, my typing took too long so i didn't read that last post. that is true, but i was just doing what everybody else was doing. plus, it is true that UCPSB is missing a lot of things, but it's sort of silly for us to be moping about it if we can't do anything.

damn finally someone who makes sense!

I agree with this guy!

I've said it all along! Radical actions are FUTILE and will not solve any problem! If you want to show how great creativity is, you have to work on it for a long time to either showcase it in a very convincing way, or to teach people to progressively adapt their thinking! You can't shove your ideas on others. won't work.

In my "ideal" vision of Pen Spinning, "performers" (ones who focus on execution) and "inventors" (originality/creativity) actually COLLABORATE with each other. In the sense that breakthroughs are made by the inventors, and performers try to absorb those ideas as much as they can and integrate or find ways to smoothly link to those new components!

No need to fight, work together!

Actually that was the motivation behind my Paired collab, but it didn't work out due to external reasons.

awkward. I love you. No joke dude, I was seriously waiting for someone to actually give me real reasons. You put thought into your post, and I understand and feel everything you said.

I must say, that was one of the greatest posts I've seen.

Ok, I agree with you. However, I still believe theres more to be discovered. Sure, it's harder now, and many people want to give in to the fact that we can't invent anymore. I for one refuse to stop exploring.

When kam started PS, he set the fundamentals of PS. Sonic, ThumbAround, Fingerpass, and Charge. When Pentix the forum started, David Weis created the BackAround in about 1-2 years. During the opening of UPSB, BackAround was one of the hardest tricks around, which was about 5-6 years ago. Soon after that, aerials were explored in about 1-2 years, then stalls in about 1 year after that. At the closure of UPSB, 2 handed combos were huge, and Korean style(which I will call speed style from now on) was brewing. When UCPSB came, it brought a whole new feeling to PS, which was 2 years ago. Since the new speed style became popular, many old members left, creating a whole new database of new members, most of them wanting to learn tricks. They were influenced by the speed style, and old UPSB style went out of taste.

Lets just get things straight here. There was a significant difference between UPSB style and speed style, as there is now. You cannot deny it, because I can simply pull up a video from the past and the present, and they would have completely different feelings and appearances.

Ok, back to my story.

During these 2 years at UCPSB, there has been no big hype coming in at all, and all videos now seem the same to me. To me, there is no distinct differences between 2 battle videos, or even 2 collaborations. Simply put, all PS is to me is 1 generic video now.

Take for example, UPSB+PDS Collab.

Now, watch UCPSB Collab.

If you cannot tell the difference between styles of spinning, sir you must be blind.

Anyways, I digress. It's 2AM, and I have no idea what I just typed up. Oh yea, I'm sorry if I attacked PDS, I just haven't seen any of those "planned" PDS videos. All I have seen are those freestyle ones. Anyways I need sleep.

Hot girls

Sweat Bands

Skill

UCPSB is missing Mats :(

I don't really have something to compare ucpsb with. I Joined the PS world after UPSB closed, I'm afraid. But yeah, some of your points are right.

I don't really care if someone say something shitty about me. Why care? I don't see why people should.


- Fire

These two things go hand-in-hand. It was only a matter of time before PS fell by the creative wayside because the mindless conformity is merely a reflection of the same phenomenon occurring in society. Some people say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but this saying has the ring of a poor excuse for the lack of independent thought.

Children always have the greatest imagination, then as we grow up, society has a tendency to slow things down by stifling creativity. In the corporate world, for example, it comes as no great surprise that the most efficient business solutions are usually the most innovative ones, because our openness of thought has been circumscribed to the point where we are blind to answers right in front of us.

Then you look at TV, which is another example. In the past, there were so many good shows on TV, from sitcoms to dramas. But then, say, Survivor happens to come up with the idea of reality TV, which networks then proceed to copy ad infinitum, debasing the concept more than improving it.

There are many other examples but I won't bore you with the details. Suffice it to say that if others want to bring their conformist values into pen spinning, then let them spin however they want to, as long as they're content with the fact that if they're the majority, PS will be the same 10 years down the road as it is now.

Ah, but of course, there's a catch. Even though some they seem content, tossing around epithets like "creative bullshit" and lauding repetitive PS, they also seem to flock towards creative material. This duplicity is also reflected in society, so nothing new here. The thing is, if you are so in love with the Korean style that you are oblivious to all else, I see no reason for you to even watch other material. Pentix, Penstudioz and all those other sites from the past should deny you access if they could.

Every time you perform an invented trick or film a combo, just remember that it was the product of creative thought and you as spinners reaped the benefits. They were there for you to enjoy, appreciate, and build upon, but you did nothing but take them and do what television did to the concept of reality TV. I understand now why people are reluctant to introduce their ideas to the public. I know I would be.