http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23688073/

How messed up is this country's government?


The people for the ban say that the admendment says..

The amendment reads: “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

And they say that it means for only people in the militia, but they dont think that in the Declaration of Independence itself, the people of the country have the right to BECOME a militia and overthrow the government if the majority seems fit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_revolution

the declaration of independance isn't a binding legal document hope this helps

Heh..I heard about that..I thought it was complete bull..They wait until now to try that? Heh..Idiots..I mean they do this shit what seems like at random..And besides..The military/militia already have weapons..I mean if they take away that right away from citizens..It isn't going to stop violence amongst them..And what about the hunters? take their sporting guns/bows away and the hunted (ie deers, birds, whatever they are hunting) will over populate and starve..Which is what will happen to the human race sooner or later..Fools..

To be fair your overpopulation of hunted animals argument is kind of a joke...i mean, overpopulation in itself is a population control, when animals start starving and dying that means there is more food for the others thus keeping the population level.

As for the right to bear arms, i see a right for long guns and such as a militia, but hand guns are unneccessary as they are only tools for killing humans. Proper and safe storage of a firearm is a must and if you decide to form a militia taking the trigger guard off will hardly slow that process down. There are police to fight criminals, it is not your job to shoot them.

your right, but that along with the constitution is what this country was founded on. and most laws built from.

Im not a gun nut, and I do strongly beleive in gun control, but I should be able to have some sort of protection against people who MOSTLY buy their guns for robbery and murder off the black market anyway, but if I want to take my glock and go down to the shooting range for the afternoon away from everything, i should be able to.

Here's an idea..Shoot yourself.

Griven, you are fucking Canadian. End of story, no matter how you interpret the laws of the US you are going to be wrong because you are not subject to them. Police don't prevent crimes, they investigate crimes, and give out tickets. Also, THE POLICE ARE UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO PROTECT CITIZENS, the supreme court has ruled that the police don't have to protect us.
http://concealed.wordpress.com/2007/12/12/...ion-to-protect/
So the government says "We don't have to protect you" and is also trying to say "You have no right to protect yourself."

Now, I am a gun owner, and I also carry a license to carry a weapon on my person at all times (even though I believe it is my inalienable right to do so), and your arguement that handguns are "only tools for killing humans" is completely full of shit because there are several handguns designed for hunting, such as the Thompson Contender, the SW M500 magnum and even the M29 .44 Magnum (Dirty Harry's gun) were designed for hunting. Furthermore, handguns are a classified by the military as a side arm, a DEFENSIVE WEAPON for when you cannot get to your long arm or it is inoperable.

I also know how to read "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" and I also know about the Militia act of 1791 which says all able bodied men are the militia, if we update that to today's standards then all able bodied people are the militia. SO hey, I am an able bodied citizen, I am a member of the Militia according to the law, which has not been repealed of challenged (iirc), so give me a fucking machine gun.

These guys are getting on my nerves too, take this for example:
“Does that make it unreasonable for a city with a very high crime rate ... to say ‘No handguns here?’” Breyer said.

Now, he is a moron, because the crime rate has only increased in spite of the ban, which I do not believe is simple correlation.

If we have members of the supreme court who are expected to be versed in the law and I would hope well versed in the original intentions of the founding fathers, who wrote at length about their views and intentions, and they still think "Not an individual right, can be infringed upon" we have something very, very wrong going on.

Yet, they are going to rule that A ) no individual right, or B ) individual right with reasonable restrictions, which flies on the face of the text and the opinions of the founders. When they do there will be no action on the part of the gun owners, because the majority of the pro-gun community are hobbyists and don't have the balls to stand up for their rights.

kk4 if anyone should be denied the right to input on this matter it's you

And yet I am an American Citizen, a gun owner, and a voter.

yawn

wahh i can't carry around an assault rifle wherever i want my rights are being infringed

* Censored by the fascist administration.

Doesn't this qualify for the debate section?

Yeah, I was thinking it was more of a general news topic, but it would probably fit better in d&d.

WHEN THE GLOBAL ISLAMIC CALIPHATE TAKES OVER YOU'LL BE SORRY THEY TOOK YOUR GUNS

:swords:

As a Canadian, I just want to make a note.

http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Gov/morrison2.html

Some of us are well aware that Gun Registry is a joke. In fact, it's wasted 2 BILLION (200 Million a year) of taxpayer dollars in Canada. With a protesting non-compliance rate of lawful use citizens (that is people who use their guns lawfully, but refuse to register out of principle or non-violent protest) amounting to 70%, it's been proved ineffective. Especially considering that most gun crime is committed using illegally obtained firearms.

Don't look at all Canadians as a bunch of gun fearing hippie douches... Only those from Toronto are. Well... Everyone from Toronto is born into Douchery, so it's not their fault, it's just genetics. What with the "Volvo Vote" or "Soccer Mom Vote" outnumbering the logic votes nearly 100:1

I'm not a gun nut, but I hunt, I'm part native, so yeah... Plus, using an SR-25 is the only god damned way I'm ever going to take down a bear. :P Ironic... I can purchase handguns and I do go to the range for target shooting. I prefer http://www.ipsc.org/ standards, and when I get my handgun, I'll be practicing for competition. :D

The only problem with gun control is that it just doesn't work. Sure deaths from accidents will go down, but the crime won't. Most crimes involving a gun are done with a gun that was bought illegally. Criminals won't care that owning a gun is illegal, because they are already doing something illegal, and own an illegal firearm. If everyone in America had a gun and knew how and when to use it, they'd probably think twice about pulling that gun on someone, because that other person might just have one of his own for defense.

Im a kiwi so I pretty much have no idea what America is like. New Zealand Police are completely unarmed and fatal shootings are pretty much unheard of. Therefore I feel reasonably strong about gun control, mainly that no one should own a gun. Hunting with guns, fair enough, however specialist hunting rifles are unlike pistols which is where gun control should be enforced (athough NZ population is 4m, so most likely heaps easier than enforcing such laws in America).

But then again, we have to realize guns dont kill people, people kill people. People have been killing people forever. Guns are just a modern version of a sharpened rock attached to a long stick really. Carrying a gun doesnt mean your going to kill someone.

If someone wants to kill you, what weapon they use is irrelevant. They want you dead, and will see to it that their "want" becomes a reality. Using a gun to do it is just one way of many. If you abolished guns, you wouldn't abolish crime. You'd just force people to stab each other to death instead of shooting each other. Then what? Ban knives? Ban spears? Ban sticks? Ban Rocks? Ban Fists?

You can's stop violence. If you could, we'd have no wars, etc. That's a utopian idea and not something at all plausible. On top of that, equating violence to the tool used is over-simplifying the issue and looking for a scapegoat instead of a solution.

"My idea of gun control is a tight five shot grouping" - dunno who said this.

you disarm a population, and you have slaves. you arm a population and you have freedom. look at all the nations which have a strong anti-gun sentiments, they are all corrupt, elitist nations where keeping people in line was the order of the day. people who are armed are far harder to keep in line, and far harder to oppress, or rob, rape or murder. murders and rapists believe in gun control, they believe they should be in control of the guns. so ask yourself, what is "gun control" and who should control the guns? Should I, a citizen, control the guns, or should the guns be controlled only by the police and the military, that sounds a lot like martial law to me.

sounds like kk4 is living in a state of paranoia.

guns are bad, okay. banning guns and banning fists are completely different ballparks. you can punch someone in a moment of anger and then change your mind. You can shoot someone in a moment of anger and 9 times out of 10 you are gonna cause some serious damage, potentially instant death.

The more dead, the better. Why can't anyone seem to see that if you let everyone live that'll cause serious issues that will end in everyone dead.(even though that's what I want, it's more fun to kill them myself) It'll lead to over-population which will lead to starvation, crowding, may also speed up the thing you people call "Global Warming." Like it matters, either way everyone is dead. So.. :fu: :fu: :fu: :fu:

You must be new here... Very new.

First of all, Guns are inanimate objects and are not inherently good or bad, because only living things can be inherently good or bad. A gun is just a machine made of metal and wood, or metal and plastic it won't jump off a table and bite you or start talking to you in an effort to get you to be the next Son of Sam, that's what German Shepards are for.

That being said a gun has a purpose, which is to launch a projectile towards a target with the intent of incapacitating, destroying or simply putting a whole in it. That purpose is also neutral as it can be used against game, targets, or human beings (or simply to make bad ass poses for pictures on the internet). Sometimes human beings simply need to be killed when all other options are exhausted. This statement isn't to be taken lightly, as I disagree with using firearms against people save as a weapon of last resort.

However, people use guns for less than neutral reasons, even less than noble reasons. We call this class of people criminals. Criminals don't share my view of weapons and use them merely as a means to an end to get what they want, which more often than not belongs to you, another innocent person, or another criminal. If they don't have guns to get these things then they will resort to something else, a knife, a bottle, a rock, or blunt instrument. They also don't have any moral qualms about using a weapon as a lost resort. In order to counter this I own weapons to be used against the criminal classes who have already shown how highly they value human life and the rule of law.

Also, there is the matter of living freely. Those populations which were disarmed have always been enslaved by those who have had arms. Those who have been disarmed are often the victims of terror at the hands of those who are armed. I do not want some thug who has a quota of dissidents to fill to randomly choose my name from a phone book and then come in my home like a thief in the night to take me away to some god forsaken camp, for that reason also I own firearms. That is not paranoia, it is history. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the tactics of the Cheka/NKVD/KGB the SD/SS the Stasi and the myriad of other thug castes that were used to terrorize their populations on the behalf of their governments.

Criminals and deathsquads who are after my life, my wellbeing and my property simply need to die. I cannot fend of a cadre of criminals with my fists, but my .45 has a 12 round magazine. That should be enough. If you disagree very well, but I am not turning in my weapons any time soon.

sorry kk4 you're wrong

People are animals, just clawless, furless, animals with large brains and when you add law and religion all you get is a falseness of sophistication, civility, and hope thinking they're beyond animals, they're wrong, I applaud these people you categorize as murderers, rapists, etc. because at least they have the guts to prove that they aren't.(even though they don't know it.)

Yes, swords, I think we all have the odd tendency to applauded rapists at one time or another.

FRIGGIN JERK!

Back on guns. America is in an unfortunate situation where owning guns has been legal for a very long time. As a consequence of this guns have become easily obtainable (relative to say the UK where there are fuck all guns, despite the recent increase in gun crime). So criminalising guns would be extremely difficult, as not only would you have to deal with a radical shift in stopping guns from entering the country, you would also have the problem of disarming a nation. Good American people like KK4 will use arguments along the lines of self-protection, personal freedoms as outlined by the constitution, stalemeate effects of guns etc. This is what they know. If I were brought up in an environment where guns were rife I would most likely have similar views.

However, if you can get America to a similar state the UK is in, whereby gun control is uncompromising, a top priority, then smuggling guns into the country becomes almost impossible - you're on the right track. I dont have the potential fears KK4 has because I know that nobody here has a gun. Maybe there are enough guns around for one in every thousand men, and that's a very generous estimate. What's more, our police force does not use firearms. Not our standard "on the beat" police force, at least. They have special units for firearms situations which, of course, utilise guns in their work.

And if some urban militia or control force were to form with the purpose of taking me and my buddies to death camps, I'd like to think that I, along with the political commentators, the relentless media, and the general thinking public, would be able to see it coming and prepare for it.

cuba didnt see it coming!!

Cuba didnt have Jeremy Paxman.

What the fuck are you talking about?

fuck guns fuck gun debates